Funny noise when accelerating hard in low gears

[mrzoggs]

Same thing here will get that sorted asap as it mightily annoying haha

hey edamski are u on 106owners?

 

[mrzoggs]

Its the manifold tw*ting the sub-frame isn't it?

i dont know, gonna get a mechanics opinion this weekend

 

[Topgeartom]

Right well i've just swapped my top engine mount for a new one (albeit a kangoo one) and the knocking is massively reduced. Its still there in the very top end of the rev range but its is hugely less intrusive.

The wheels now just spin rather than knocking like they were trying to free themselves from the confines of the car.

Think I might change the rest of the mounts at some point and see how that alters things

 

[nickl360]

Did you pull the engine forward as well?

 

[Topgeartom]

As much as i could yes but the design of the engine mount doesnt really give it much adjustability, it sort of sits in place and then thats it.

 

[Icarus83]

Its the manifold tw*ting the sub-frame isn't it?

This sounds like your problem, have a read of the following:

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=388525

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=279713&highlight=banging

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=238087&highlight=banging

Enjoy,
Rob

 

[franx]

Right well i've just swapped my top engine mount for a new one (albeit a kangoo one) and the knocking is massively reduced. Its still there in the very top end of the rev range but its is hugely less intrusive.

The wheels now just spin rather than knocking like they were trying to free themselves from the confines of the car.

Think I might change the rest of the mounts at some point and see how that alters things

I was waiting for this ; was the Kangoo one a straight swap ? and what about the top one under the batterytray ?

Rob (Icarus83) ; you were having a go at these aswell were'nt you ?

Very interested in this (cheapish) mod ! :approve:

 

[Topgeartom]

A complete straight swap yes.

Its the mount as used on the 1.4/1.6/1.9D clios or kangoos.
part number 7700434370

Havent changed the battery tray mount yet - thats next on my to do list.

 

[franx]

same as the 1,4 and 1,6 clio too ? Hope they can handle the torque of a 2,0 !?

Well the 1.9 diesel uses it too so they must be strong enough to take some torque i guess

 

[nathanH]

I feel things are getting a little messy:

There are two types of Banging/knocking

1 - Axle Tramp on hard exceleration, very common on alot of front wheel drive cars. want to stop it?... feather the clutch and it wont do it. break traction and it will

2 - manifold/cat knocking on the subframe, this is from excessive play in the engine mounts, usualy due to broken or excessivly worn mounts. If you want to fix it you need to think about why its doing it in the first place. On load the bottom of the engine twists toward the front of the car, this brings the flange of the cat/manifold into contact with the top of the subframe, the mount which stops this movement is the dog bone. Pulling the engine forward on the upper mount twists the engine by a few mm so it sits flatter in the engine bay (top of the engine tilts towards the bulk head, this moves the engine ever so slightly towards the front of the car lifting the manifold flange a few mm higher off the subframe... stick with me chief)
Packing the gaps in the dog bone mount (we'll call it the NathanH fix from now on) takes some of the play out of the mount, not by much but enough to reduce the twisting movement of the engine and stoping it from coming into contact with the subframe.
the next port of call is the black bracket that connects the dog bone to the gear box. Make sure all 4 bolts are tight but first losen them and pull the bracket toward the front of the car (there is slight movement in it) then tighten them up. There are 4 bolts, 2 are easy to get to the other 2 are at the top of the bracket and are pretty awkward to get too (danlp6 mentioned this) Doing all this should give you enough clearance between the flages and subframe to stop the knocking but still alow the engine to move.

This fix will only work if all your mounts are in good condition.

Nathan

 

[franx]

^^ And even when changing all mounts all round ; the knocking continues :S , i've let go of it and it does'nt bother me as much anymore. Just easy on launches to keep traction helps a lot. (faster launch this way too)


Topgear Tom, do you have less enginemovement with these mounts (seen/felt in gearstick) ? I'd like the gearstick to stop moving all over the place..

 

[nathanH]

yes, new mounts should help as they are stiffer than older ones that have perished over time and have more give in them. This isnt so much an engine mount issue than a clearance issue.
My moto has always been if it aint broken, dont fit it. Would rather spend a hour of my time doing what I mentioned above than spending a hunderd odd quid on something that may only cure the problem for a few months.

 

[MikeyK18]

same problem with me, am changing the gear box mounts atthe weekend

 

[Topgeartom]

franx - yes everything feels much tighter, although it wasnt too bad before.

My top mount had completely split into 2 on the rubber however so its no surprise!

 

[172Dom]

I feel things are getting a little messy:

There are two types of Banging/knocking

1 - Axle Tramp on hard exceleration, very common on alot of front wheel drive cars. want to stop it?... feather the clutch and it wont do it. break traction and it will

2 - manifold/cat knocking on the subframe, this is from excessive play in the engine mounts, usualy due to broken or excessivly worn mounts. If you want to fix it you need to think about why its doing it in the first place. On load the bottom of the engine twists toward the front of the car, this brings the flange of the cat/manifold into contact with the top of the subframe, the mount which stops this movement is the dog bone. Pulling the engine forward on the upper mount twists the engine by a few mm so it sits flatter in the engine bay (top of the engine tilts towards the bulk head, this moves the engine ever so slightly towards the front of the car lifting the manifold flange a few mm higher off the subframe... stick with me chief)
Packing the gaps in the dog bone mount (we'll call it the NathanH fix from now on) takes some of the play out of the mount, not by much but enough to reduce the twisting movement of the engine and stoping it from coming into contact with the subframe.
the next port of call is the black bracket that connects the dog bone to the gear box. Make sure all 4 bolts are tight but first losen them and pull the bracket toward the front of the car (there is slight movement in it) then tighten them up. There are 4 bolts, 2 are easy to get to the other 2 are at the top of the bracket and are pretty awkward to get too (danlp6 mentioned this) Doing all this should give you enough clearance between the flages and subframe to stop the knocking but still alow the engine to move.

This fix will only work if all your mounts are in good condition.

Nathan

Now im no expert but I dont think its either of those, I think its a 3rd noise, as I have had both of the above.

I tend to get the noise when giving it the beans towards the red line, but the wheels are not losing traction and spining.

only recently started doing it, but sound bad - will it get worse or will the engine fall out???

its weird!!!

 

[pacey]

I tend to get the noise when giving it the beans towards the red line, but the wheels are not losing traction and spining.

Yeah this is what we get :S Took it to the steelers and they have no clue either !

Dont want to just start replacing random parts to see if it may cure it though.