Gearbox Issue.....Again..

[Edd]

My release bearing went about 4 weeks ago, so I had a new clutch fitted by a transmission specialist in Wakefield. When the gearbox oil was drained metal was found in it, so they went ahead and stripped the gearbox down. They found a bearing needed replacing and also a seal, so I didn't think that was too bad and it was all put back together.

Since having the car back I've not used it a great deal and have been on holiday twice, but this morning I went to gear down from 4th to 3rd at 40mph and there was a bit of a crunch. It went into gear without any extra force but it didn't feel smooth, so maybe crunch is the wrong word. I tried all other gear change combinations at various speeds and all were very smooth including 2nd to 3rd.

Now as soon as I had done around 5/7 miles and the car had warmed up all gear changes were spot on, no crunching and really smooth.

So I called the transmission specialist and I have just been to see them aswell , bearing in mind my Dad has known the owner for 10 years I'd like to think they will see me right. As you'd imagine when they took it out the gear changes were smooth. The owner worked on my car with my Dad calling by 4/5 times whilst my car was in various stages of repair and he swears blind that there wasn't any wear on any other components apart from those that were replaced and that each part was inspected in much detail.

He said it could be down to the oil, I asked him what was in it and he said 75W90 semi synthetic and showed me a booked that said this is what to put in a 172. I was sure it was 75W80 fully synthetic though? But can the wrong grade of oil really cause rough gear changes?

It's unfortunate as the car was actually for sale with a fair bit of interest.

Sorry it's a fairly lengthy post, and advice/similar experiences would be much appreciated.

Ed

 

[DrR]

Sounds like a normal RS gearbox to me?

 

[stu-172]

Wrong oil! Yes these boxes are very sensitive. In fact they're crap! They need treated with care!

Try some of this oil:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-723-castrol-epx75w-80-gear-oil.aspx

If you search for your car on the opie site it'll recommend several gear oils!

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/product-f.../clio/PETROL/clio/26003/product-finder-2.aspx

 

[Budgie]

Worn dogbone mount?

 

[Edd]

Sounds like a normal RS gearbox to me?

Prior to the clutch packing up the gearbox felt much smother/tighter than the other two 172's i've had.

I'll get the oil changed and fit a new mount before I start having the gearbox removed again i think.

Is the dog bone mount different on a ph1 to a ph2? Best place to get one?

 

[Budgie]

Yeah, it's different on Ph1 and Ph2.

Is there excessive movement in the engine?

 

[Edd]

Wrong oil! Yes these boxes are very sensitive. In fact they're crap! They need treated with care!

Try some of this oil:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-723-castrol-epx75w-80-gear-oil.aspx

If you search for your car on the opie site it'll recommend several gear oils!

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/product-f.../clio/PETROL/clio/26003/product-finder-2.aspx

Cheers for that Stu.

 

[Edd]

Yeah, it's different on Ph1 and Ph2.

Is there excessive movement in the engine?

I havn't checked to be honest, no knocking noises though.

 

[bmh.01]

Stick some proper correct grade oil in it before getting too worried, they seem to like the EPX which is good as it isn't mega bucks.

 

[GodSpeed]

Oh my god!! The Castrol is the worst crap Ive ever put in my gearbox, very hard to get the gears in when cold. Overall a very unsmooth feeling to it. Renault Sweden used to put Castol in the JC5's but got new orders from above that only the Elf oil may be oput in these boxes. From what ive heard the syncros on these boxes need something similar to a plate diff oil to work perfect.

Go with the oil Renault tells you to and it will go like a dream. Elf Tranself EFJ 75W 80 that is.

Good luck.

 

[franx]

^^ yup

stick to Reno specs with box oil

 

[Edd]

Oh my god!! The Castrol is the worst crap Ive ever put in my gearbox, very hard to get the gears in when cold. Overall a very unsmooth feeling to it. Renault Sweden used to put Castol in the JC5's but got new orders from above that only the Elf oil may be oput in these boxes. From what ive heard the syncros on these boxes need something similar to a plate diff oil to work perfect.

Go with the oil Renault tells you to and it will go like a dream. Elf Tranself EFJ 75W 80 that is.

Good luck.

I was just about to order some Castrol. I take it a Renault dealer will sell this?

 

[GodSpeed]

I was just about to order some Castrol. I take it a Renault dealer will sell this?

Dont count on it. If they dont have it get it somewhere else.

 

[Edd]

Dont count on it. If they dont have it get it somewhere else.

My local Renault dealer stock it, said it was pointless reserving it as they had plenty. 12 quid a litre. So I'm going to get it over the pit on Saturday and change it.

 

[jaysjetski]

i believe the syncros actually get eaten away with 75W90 which is why the 75w80 has to be used.

im sure i read that on a thread here somewhere

 

[bmh.01]

Oh my god!! The Castrol is the worst crap Ive ever put in my gearbox, very hard to get the gears in when cold. Overall a very unsmooth feeling to it. Renault Sweden used to put Castol in the JC5's but got new orders from above that only the Elf oil may be oput in these boxes. From what ive heard the syncros on these boxes need something similar to a plate diff oil to work perfect.

Go with the oil Renault tells you to and it will go like a dream. Elf Tranself EFJ 75W 80 that is.

Good luck.

Can't disagree with you more on that one tbh, put it in numerous JB1, JB3 and JC5 boxes as well as the ND0 box in my 225 have never had an experience like that. Infact the megane box is nicer to use on the castrol than it was on the oe stuff.

 

[FRED172]

My Ph1 gearchanges don't feel that great when cold, several others I tested were worse. But I was lead to believe it was very common?

 

[Edd]

i believe the syncros actually get eaten away with 75W90 which is why the 75w80 has to be used.

im sure i read that on a thread here somewhere

I'd have thought thicker oil would protect parts, but I suppose I can see how it could restrict movement.

Crunch is certainly the wrong word for my gearchange of concern (4th to 3rd when cold), it just doesn't feel smooth so hopefully the thicker oil is the cause of this.

 

[Edd]

Changed the gearbox oil to some 75w80 Elf and what a difference it has made. No resistance going from 4th to 3rd and all gearchanges feel really smooth. The Wakefield Renault dealer didn't stock the litre bottles but as I only needed 3 litres he let me have 5 litres for the price of 3.

Changed the engine oil and filter at the same time. When buying the filter from a local motorfactor I asked what gearbox oil they would sell me for a 172 and he had a look on his computer and said 75w90. So there's clearly a fault on these systems they use.

So atleast my box doesn't have to come off again!

 

[Damo_Sport]

How do you change the gearbox oil cause im interested in doing mine tomorrow?

 

[Gardus]

From the time I bought mine I used elf renault-spec oil, new dogbone with powerflex and new front box mount: it feels a lot better but it still crunches a bit when i go from 3rd to 2nd in a hurry (I noticed that it's a lot better if i pull the lever "down" instead of "down-left") and from 4th to 5th above 5500 rpm. Anyway it's not the fastest box, but it's not the worst either. Try the 1st gen Mini Cooper with more than 50k miles...it's crap!
I still remember the slickness of my S2000 box...

 

[Henry]

you can look after the box by blipping the throttle with downshifts - seems to help alot; not much you can do about problem upshifts, though, other than take them steady. spoils the car imo - at odds with the nature of the rest of it. still, could be worse

 

[Damo_Sport]

I know there is a guide on here for gearbox oil change.. but no pics ><

Anyone know any with pics? or a bloody good description?

 

[Gardus]

Henry the problem with 4 to 5th it's that the revs don't get down fast enough, and the worn syncro it's not enough. A lightened flywheel could help! I have only to slow down a bit the gearchange, anyway you're going at 100+mph so you really don't need an istant change.

3->2 and 2->1 i'm used to do double-clutching or at least heel&toe on hairpins and in fast driving, but it's not always spot on (my bad).

I'm really looking for a lightned and balanced flywheel when i'll have to change the clutch. Still strong and precise by now, though.

 

[BRUN]

pretty much all Renault gearbox oils are 75W-80, however we have a few different versions of the same grade for different boxes, so they must be different for a reason

and its not a case of selling more expensive oils for sports etc, all the normal manual box oils are the same price

stick to the OE stuff i say, as you have done

 

[Henry]

Henry the problem with 4 to 5th it's that the revs don't get down fast enough, and the worn syncro it's not enough. A lightened flywheel could help! I have only to slow down a bit the gearchange, anyway you're going at 100+mph so you really don't need an istant change.

3->2 and 2->1 i'm used to do double-clutching or at least heel&toe on hairpins and in fast driving, but it's not always spot on (my bad).

I'm really looking for a lightned and balanced flywheel when i'll have to change the clutch. Still strong and precise by now, though.

getting better, but i find it difficult to be consistent with as well. it's 2->3 at revs that mine doesn't like much, although it seems to depend upon its mood

 

[Edd]

Just been out in it for a decent drive and would certainly only ever put the ELF stuff in. Can't understand why the transmission specialist and motorfactors database would tell them to use 75w90 at all.

 

[Edd]

I know there is a guide on here for gearbox oil change.. but no pics ><

Anyone know any with pics? or a bloody good description?

I should have taken some pics.

Well I did it over a pit so I suppose that made it much easier. There's a bolt on the underside of the gearbox that is very similar to the one you would remove to drain the engine oil. Remove this and have something ready to catch the 3 litres of oil. I left it to drain for 10 minutes until all drips had stopped.

Now the bolt you need to remove to fill the gearbox up is on the passanger side of the box about 5 inches up from the lowest point of the gearbox.

What I did was run a pipe down through the engine bay and into the refill hole, the pipe I used was around 10/12mm diameter. I then pumped just over 3 litres through the pipe and into the gearbox. When close to the 3 litre point I pumped small amounts through so I could tell when it was at the limit without getting oil everywhere.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[GodSpeed]

Just been out in it for a decent drive and would certainly only ever put the ELF stuff in. Can't understand why the transmission specialist and motorfactors database would tell them to use 75w90 at all.

I just love when people are smart enough to take a good advise. Glad it worked out for you.

 

[laz5758]

How do you change the gearbox oil cause im interested in doing mine tomorrow?

+1


Edit: Scrap that, just read it lol

 

[mgoode180566]

When my clutch went the guy at renault talked me out of the Elf box oil. They only sold it out of a lrge drum.

I went and bought some valvoline box oil. Works perfectly and was cheap ( £10 filled the box ).

I recall it is specific for french boxes, Renault and Peugeot. Cant recall the specification.