heal and toe..

[r8byb]

got used to doing this now although i seem to be able to only do it when going fast i.e pushing the car... if im driving through town i cant do it without jerking with the brake or something... dunno if that's because im going slow or because im doing something wrong ? Any tips ?

 

[Lee172_cup]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

 

[ForceIndia]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

Pics!!!!!!!

 

[Turner]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

My accel pedal is too low in mine to do this as i end up pressin the brake to hard to try and reach the low accel pedal with my toe

 

[couzens]

i could only do it in my instructors car, cant seem to do it in the clio

 

[Christophe]

i dont understand heel and toe

 

[Jaff]

it just allows oyu to match revs as you change down while braking, it apprenly is easier ont he clutch and box, i can do it becaus ie have wide feat and only when i were the right shoes.

i find the accelerator is a bit low, and you can only do it smooth pushing hard, because you are depressing the brake more so the accelerator is easier to reach.

i'm trying to learn how to left foot brake now, i cant do it and slow smoothly withthe left foot, but i dont know when to apply it of you know what i mean some one told me it was only really of use if the car is in a bit of a drift to sling the weight over the front wheels to get front end traction is that right?

 

[r8byb]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

My accel pedal is too low in mine to do this as i end up pressin the brake to hard to try and reach the low accel pedal with my toe

I think thats the problem its too low, and the pedal needs t o be bigger too for me anyway

 

[Turner]

My accel pedal is too low in mine to do this as i end up pressin the brake to hard to try and reach the low accel pedal with my toe

I think thats the problem its too low, and the pedal needs t o be bigger too for me anyway

you need one of these then fella
extended accel pedal

 

[r8byb]

Yes i do !! where from ?

 

[Turner]

hi

 

[r8byb]

From you ?

How do you fit as just realised there rivited on :|

 

[Lee172_cup]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

My accel pedal is too low in mine to do this as i end up pressin the brake to hard to try and reach the low accel pedal with my toe

Sorry, yeah that's what I meant... Too low, not too high. Tried it a couple of times on the road and nearly ended up in a ditch. Decided to leave it for the track! Will try to post up a couple of pictures of my Dad's car tonight.

 

[Turner]

From you ?

How do you fit as just realised there rivited on :|

yes from me matey £10 delivered comes with new rivets etc
Old one just drill the rivets out with 4mm drill bit and rivet new one on

 

[The Boosh!]

how easy are the pedals to fit? is there alot of bodging involved

 

[Turner]

no bodging what so ever mate its a case of taking the old one of and replacing with new one,simple

 

[trile]

heel&toe is a nightmare in a 197...

 

[Lee172_cup]

I find the accelerator pedal is too high in my Clio to heal & toe smoothly to be honest. Can do it much better in my Dad's 240z track car.

The problem doing it smoothly at slow speeds could be the fact that the slower you're going the harsher the brake is anyway. That's why you have to feather the brakes to come to a stop smoothly. Where as at faster speeds the momentum of the car means you can push the brake harder and it has less of a jerking effect on the car. Not sure if that makes sense but I know what I mean! :S

Pics!!!!!!!

Here's a picture of my Dad's track car, a 1973 (I think) Datsun 240z. Doesn't look much but it's very light (under 1000kg), is fitted with full bucket seats, 5 point harnesses, adjustable suspension and has been rebored to 2.9 litre. Been timed doing 0-60 in 5.4 sec at Trax in 2005 and handles like it's on rails. It's amazing to drive and embarrasses most modern cars. I took my Clio cup on this track day and my Dad was 10 seconds a lap quicker!!! We drove it at Japfest last month and I easily overtook an Evo 7. Going to classic Le Mans in it next month.

 

[MarkCup]

I found it ok when I drove a 197.

To do it right you need good brakes and lines giving a firm but consistent pedal position. Then it doesn't matter if you're on the brakes hard or soft, you're always lined up consitently to blip the throttle.

Video mix of up and down changes at various speeds here from when I was playing about with my new camera mount;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCSGdzrsG3s

 

[Lee172_cup]

Here's another pic. It's the perfect car for heal & toe, pedals are just right. I still can't heal & toe in my Clio! :dapprove:

 

[trile]

I found it ok when I drove a 197.

To do it right you need good brakes and lines giving a firm but consistent pedal position. Then it doesn't matter if you're on the brakes hard or soft, you're always lined up consitently to blip the throttle.

Video mix of up and down changes at various speeds here from when I was playing about with my new camera mount;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCSGdzrsG3s

i don't know is it because 197 is fly by wire and your cup is cable ..but it takes a lot more "force" on the throttle to blip it...
Cause when i do it (for example) around town, i have to sink my feet all the way down if i want to raise the revs for a downshift.

 

[MarkCup]

Could well be. When I drove a normal 182 I found it needed a real determined prod to get the revs blipped up enough...throttle response wasn't as sharp as it is in my Cup.

Maybe that's why you're struggling?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I've not found a car yet that heal & toe is impossible in..

You just have to adjust the positions of your feet for most cars. The magnitude of throttle you need to rev match is different in every car too. I've generally found bigger engines require less movement on the throttle to get the right blip. My old DCI you literally had to press the pedal to make it rev though.

Cup isn't cable throttle either, it's FBW.

 

[edde]

i don't know is it because 197 is fly by wire and your cup is cable ..but it takes a lot more "force" on the throttle to blip it...
Cause when i do it (for example) around town, i have to sink my feet all the way down if i want to raise the revs for a downshift.

the cup has a fly by wirre mark has a remap with adjusted response ehnce its more revvy.

 

[Christophe]

I think i get it. So as your breaking u blip the throttle as your left foot hits the clutch meaning as soon as you let go of the clutch the revs from the blip will more or less match the revs? If so i always seem to put to much revs lol. Plus i cant do it very well as my accelerater is so much lower and not wide enogh compared to my brake.

So whats double clutching?

 

[Christophe]

is double clutching used just to down gears? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI3cHXnGEx4

good explanation but i may be stupid but why do double clutching as it seems a lot of work when heel and toe seems easier and less work/co-ordination

 

[2thumbs]

Mk1's are best for H&T! Even with my tiny size 7's.

Only problem is, my brake pedal is starting to wear more on one corner. Might need to get some alloy ones made.

 

[superbenji88]

double de-clutching is used when you dont have a synchronized gear box, like old buses, its used to go up and down the gears

 

[ianeire]

It's not the fast and the furious, double clutching is a waste of time. Gearboxes have synchromesh for a reason.

Took me a while to get h&t in the Clio, a lot trickier than the e30 325i Sport, but I got there, find it a lot easier in track/race shoes.

 

[trile]

find it a lot easier in track/race shoes.

so that's why I couldn't h&t on my way to the beach yesterday

 

[MarkCup]

Double de-clutching does the exact same thing with engine revs as heel/toe does...it's blipped up to meet the next gear.

With double de-clutching, you don't shift from 4th to 3rd.

You shift from 4th to neutral then release the clutch, blip the engine while the clutch is engaged, then while the revs are still high enough you depress the clutch again and select 3rd...then you release the clutch while the revs are still high from the blip.

It's hard...I don't do it as a rule, I just thought I'd try and learn it and that video's where I got to.

F*** driving an old car that needs that all the time.