Help ! the missus car won't start

[Sonic_RXE]

Hi guys, not posted for a while on here since i had my last clio.

The missus has an X plate 1.2 liberte MK2 ph1 (bubble)

has had intermittent starting problems over the past 6 months.

once a month it wouldn't start, leave it 2 mins try again and its fine.

however went to start it today and nothing (she flattened the battery trying before ringing me lol)

basic troubleshooting i have done so far

turn the ignition on but don't try to start it and engine management light goes out fine no scary lights anywhere on the dash, all looks normal

crank it over, cranks fine but doesn't fire.

with all the fans etc off you turn on the ignition and you can hear the fuel pump prime.

took a plug out and earthed it, got the missus to turn the car over but no spark (tried in the dark and there's not even a glimmer - plugs were new 10k ago and looked in pretty good shape - no oil in plug wells or on plugs anywhere, all clean as a whistle. When the engine turned over got a fine fuel mist come out of the plug hole (could smell it too) so fuelling ok

I am thinking dis pack but thought i would check on here to see if anything else is likely to cause these symptoms

anyone any ideas?

Thanks

Russ

 

[edde]

Check the TDC sensor is working.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

ok

where is that and what does it do?

Sorry, i am ok on VAG 1.8T engines and vaux 2 litres but not a clue on the clio engines lol.

would that stop the spark from the plug?

 

[benhwolves]

second the TDC sensor, very common problem, my dad's T reg Clio had the exact same prob as yours - cant answer your question as to where it is tho, although i remember reading a post a while back describing how to change it

 

[LeeJSA]

TDC sensor would stop spark yes as its part of the ignition system (advance/r****d etc) same on most cars!!! Not sure where it is on a Clio as I havent had the need to look yet but its either going to be reading off the crank pulley or flywheel so it'll be near these areas of the engine.

Possible coilpack problem also.

...and perhaps an immobiliser issue - do you find it helps if you 'blip' the immobiliser key?

 

[edde]

where is that and what does it do?

best do a search for were it is but basuically its help on with 2 10mm nuts its onto of the gearbox between the engine and the gearbox.

It could be responsible but just check does your imobiliser warning light go out when you yurn the key? if it doens't then the imobiliser is still active.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

Its a liberte so is the BASE model

i mean no power steering, no bleepy locking all manual everything (although has a 6 cd changer.....go figure :S)

so thats favourite then

if i ran an OBD scan on it would it flag as a dodgy sensor?

may have a hunt round the scrappys or see how much GSF want for one

BTW dosn't have a coilpack

its on dispack and HT leads with it being an old style pre 2001 motor

 

[edde]

if i ran an OBD scan on it would it flag as a dodgy sensor?

may have a hunt round the scrappys or see how much GSF want for one

Get a proper Renault one I don't think GSF even do one.

Won't register as a doggie sensor or unlikly to. Sensor should give 220 Ohms resistance

 

[LeeJSA]

The scan SHOULD pick it up but I've known sometimes for TDC sendor problems not to show (had a 2.0L Galaxy not show up on VAGCOM, but did on a Snap On scanner)

Ok...maybe not coilpack but you'll still have a coil which could be failing!!

 

[Sonic_RXE]

yeah thats where i was going with it to be honest hence testing whether it was sparking or not

all the help is really appreciated guys.

got me looking at a 172 as i miss my clio - but shhh don;t tell her indoors yet lol

any idea on cost for TDC sensors?

 

[Sonic_RXE]

ok decided not to be lazy and did a search -0 seen some info about needing replacement loom as well?

is that necessary or can you just chop the wires and patch onto the new sensor?

 

[LeeJSA]

Hopefully they aint as expensive as the VW ones @ £120+VAT!!!!

I have heard of possible ECU/Loom faults as well now you come to mention it - not sure if its on your model. Something rubs through somewhere or other??

 

[edde]

ok decided not to be lazy and did a search -0 seen some info about needing replacement loom as well?

is that necessary or can you just chop the wires and patch onto the new sensor?

The replacment loom is for the 172 stuff you can just swop the looms £25 or so for the sesnor.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

OK so changed the TDC

just to check i got given the right thing, its a slightly curved piece of flat metal with a sensor on it which bolts to the top of the gearbox on the right hand side of the enginebay if you are looking from the front of the car backwards.

Still no spark, doesn't even attempt to fire

I am now thinking a coil pack?

it has fuel but no spark

if it aint the coil pack its gonna be an ECU isn't it

don't suppose there is anyone in wigan who fancies letting me swap some bits from their 1.2 8v for testing lol

 

[edde]

just to check i got given the right thing, its a slightly curved piece of flat metal with a sensor on it which bolts to the top of the gearbox on the right hand side of the enginebay if you are looking from the front of the car backwards.

I am now thinking a coil pack?

it has fuel but no spark

if it aint the coil pack its gonna be an ECU isn't it

don't suppose there is anyone in wigan who fancies letting me swap some bits from their 1.2 8v for testing lol

Yep thats the right bits 2 10mm nuts hold it on on either ide cannot go to far wrong just make sure you pluged it in the right way round else won't start.

Could be coil pack

ECU is possible the cars ECU's are rubish realy and the looms for failure.

Cannot swop bits as the ECU's are locked to the cars there used in.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

yeah will only plug in one way round

idiot proof plug on this one

clip only on one side

read something about a metal piece rubbing through the loom somewhere....

can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[LeeJSA]

BTW dosn't have a coilpack

I am now thinking a coil pack?

.....make your mind up fella!!! :rasp:

Are the coilpacks the same throughout the Clio range does anyone know?

 

[edde]

idiot proof plug on this one

clip only on one side

read something about a metal piece rubbing through the loom somewhere....

can anyone point me in the right direction?

The metal clip is only on the new 1.2's the ECU on them is cooled by the intake plehbam at the back of the engine the metal protective cover on them wear though the wires causing the issue check yours.

Glad you have the idiot proofed clip.

Are the coilpacks the same throughout the Clio range does anyone know?

Nope.

1.2 have either penscil or one off pack (most common)
1.4 and 1.6 have the same type individial coils.
2.0 have a one coil pack.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

I am now thinking a coil pack?

.....make your mind up fella!!! :rasp:

Are the coilpacks the same throughout the Clio range does anyone know?

Sorry lol

i meant doesn't have an all in one coilpack, has a coilpack with pencil coils coming off it.

Thrown one of them at it too now and it hasn't helped

Found the ECU, just can't get the frickin cover off !

Looks like the top half slides up to reveal the wiring loom but can't get to it !

any tips?

 

[Sonic_RXE]

ok a bit of wd40 and a hammer and got the cover off the ecu - no signs of damage at all

getting depressed now.

If its an ECU, how much am i looking at. could fit it myself if it was decoded as its just plug and play

no problem with central locking or alarm as its a base model so doesn't have it

just the chips in the keys

 

[Dan@SJM]

are the injectors firing? plug a multimeter into the plug of an injector and you should get voltage, did you say you've changed the tdc sensor?

 

[Sonic_RXE]

yeah changed TDC sensor

injectors do fire

if i take a plug out and turn it over i get puffs of fuel out the hole and can smell fuel reasonably strong.

its a 1.2 8v engine

sparks don't fire at all

tried all 4 plugs out the holes with them properly grounded.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

update in case anyone is referencing this thread - i was googling looking for replacement ECU's and came accross my own thread lol

had a freelance ex renault guy have a look (friend of a friend of a friend) - when he looked if you dicsonnected the battery for 30 secs and connect back up, try and start and the plugs fire once or twice and thats it they cut out. Apparently its a common fault for the ECU to bail on these 1.2 8v's - said it usually causes a 2 cylinder misfire or complete non start. Apparently due to the immobiliser faulting due to water damage.

found a place on ebay which does decoded ECU's which negate the immobiliser - fair enough it won't be immobilise but i can't see a joyrider taking it lol - hw wouldn't get far or have a lot of joy lol not the quickest car in the world

 

[edde]

had a freelance ex renault guy have a look (friend of a friend of a friend) - when he looked if you dicsonnected the battery for 30 secs and connect back up, try and start and the plugs fire once or twice and thats it they cut out. Apparently its a common fault for the ECU to bail on these 1.2 8v's - said it usually causes a 2 cylinder misfire or complete non start. Apparently due to the immobiliser faulting due to water damage.

found a place on ebay which does decoded ECU's which negate the immobiliser - fair enough it won't be immobilise but i can't see a joyrider taking it lol - hw wouldn't get far or have a lot of joy lol not the quickest car in the world

I did say it could be ECU they as you've had unluckily do fail

Thanks for giving an update though.

Be very careful with no imobiliser your insurance if the car is stolen is completly invalid. and they will refuse to pay out plus might report you to the police as not having insureance and cancel your ppolicy whihc you have to declaire often when you go for policies.

IMO if you do go down this route have this and your post delted.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

had a freelance ex renault guy have a look (friend of a friend of a friend) - when he looked if you dicsonnected the battery for 30 secs and connect back up, try and start and the plugs fire once or twice and thats it they cut out. Apparently its a common fault for the ECU to bail on these 1.2 8v's - said it usually causes a 2 cylinder misfire or complete non start. Apparently due to the immobiliser faulting due to water damage.

found a place on ebay which does decoded ECU's which negate the immobiliser - fair enough it won't be immobilise but i can't see a joyrider taking it lol - hw wouldn't get far or have a lot of joy lol not the quickest car in the world

I did say it could be ECU they as you've had unluckily do fail

Thanks for giving an update though.

Be very careful with no imobiliser your insurance if the car is stolen is completly invalid. and they will refuse to pay out plus might report you to the police as not having insureance and cancel your ppolicy whihc you have to declaire often when you go for policies.

IMO if you do go down this route have this and your post delted.

gonna be floggin it anyway for somethin bigger when its fixed, maybe a megane

 

[edde]

I did say it could be ECU they as you've had unluckily do fail

Thanks for giving an update though.

Be very careful with no imobiliser your insurance if the car is stolen is completly invalid. and they will refuse to pay out plus might report you to the police as not having insureance and cancel your ppolicy whihc you have to declaire often when you go for policies.

IMO if you do go down this route have this and your post delted.

gonna be floggin it anyway for somethin bigger when its fixed, maybe a megane

Be careful electrics on the new ones are even worse.

 

[Sonic_RXE]

gonna be floggin it anyway for somethin bigger when its fixed, maybe a megane

Be careful electrics on the new ones are even worse.

be something of a similar age i think

 

[Sonic_RXE]

OK update

it was the immobiliser unit BUT i think this was secondary to the main fault and caused by the missus flattening the battery completely by turning it over repeatedly to try and get going lol

there was a fault in the injector rail wiring loom on the main positive feed to it.

Ran a new +ive feed to it from another (large thick so it wouldn't overload) wire which came on with the second stage ignition.

basically got the ECU decoded and a mate of mine (race instructor / decent level mechanic / annoyingly right all the time) traced the wiring fault on the injector loom using autodata as a guide

Thought i would update this thread as every time i went googling for info on this problem i kept ending up back at my own post so could be useful for anyone else with a similar issue.

Anyway long a short of it after
almost 2 months of being out of action, my new son has been born, I am a total of £300 down after this repair lol - Methinks it would have been a bit more of a sting had i taken it to renault - i am only that much down as i bought a DTC sensor and a coil pack to try and sort it and then bought a multimeter to diagnose the wiring faults (thought it would be a useful addition to my growing tool collection)

Anyway after taking the clio out for a drive it took me back to driving my mum's V plated 1.2 RN which i passed my test in and also reminded me of what a nice place a clio is to be

**wanders off to autotrader to look at 172's...........**