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High comp engine help !



M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Im in need of a little help info if possible please, I'm building a high compression engine for my ph2 I'm looking at running 422 cams with the standard inlet but for the running in period I would like to run the standard Ecu is it at all possible to map the Ecu for running in?
An even able to use the Ecu for power maps or would I have to change to omex or ec1 or similar ?


Any help would be great

thanks matt
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Its going to run very poorly on the standard map, and even with a remap is going to be lumpy as hell at idle, the pulses going on in the intake manifold with cams that hot dont lend themselves well to any ECU which is running a speed density based fueling algorithm, you would be much better off on a TPS based setup instead.
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Thanks for the replys, I thought it would be a bit of a pig to drive low down. As long as I can just run it in till I can save up for a ec1 or omex. Would it be worth going for the ec1 over the omex expect the fact that its plug and play?

Matt
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
No I would personally go for the Omex, take a few hours to wire it in, but its then a good sturdy unit that lots of aftermarket mappers are happy to work with and for which the tools are freely available to do so yourself (5 quid lead and some free software)
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
No it's a phase two with fbw, omex it is then. have you got to get rid of the standard loom? Or run with it alongside ?
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
You can do either but both will put the light on I suspect. Better to swap to a manual throttle while you are at it though.
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Yeah think that's gona be on the cards lolol list just gets bigger an bigger ! Don't suppose you know the best place to get one piece valves found the supertech ones didn't know if there any others??? Do you have a build thread chip?
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
No no not in any race series just gona be a track toy lol I want a set of bodies at sum point but its all costs ! Want to as much as poss with the standard Inlet it's been ported as much as I can go, to do everything at once costs a lot an I can't do it all straight away. Annoying but you can't have everything. Only gone for steel rods an forge pistons to get it as reliable as possible do you think it would be best to go with less wild cams? I'm not looking big figures well torque wise iam not hp.

Matt
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
I was told different by Ktec a guy there apparently had the same spec on a standard inlet, I'm not to bothered about tick over just want it right under load obviously. Do you know of anybody that has tried it?
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
yep i have, its horrible, nothing nothing nothing nothing 5.5krpm - goes mad - limiter, nothing nothing nothing - repeat

keeping VVT or removing it?
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Well again I was told to keep the VVt, he did actually say it would be nothing till around 5k. Wasn't really wat I was looking for as I say I'm not looking for peak power. Don't suppose you could give me a few ideas in the right direction?
Cheers
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
do you have a goal? Lets say 195-200bhp cira 170 torques? that's realistic on the stock ecu and FBW/inlet with a high comp bottom end, any more than that then you'll be needing throttle bodies
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Again I would like bodies but it would be a good few months maybe a year b4 I could get them, wat cams would you suggest on the standard inlet an fbw ? Sorry to keep asking if it was a 106 I would have been ok !
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Just get 438s mate. They will work with the standard inlet and ecu but will also work on bodies later on.
thats the best compromise.
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
erm anything really, 421's, 438's, GT's, Schricks (if you have deep pockets)

we're testing a new schrick profile in the next few weeks hopefully, but its not cheap :(
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
I had been told to add a sensor if I change to ec1 then it would work fine don't know how much truth is in that. ???? Would it not be beneficial to get 421s instead of the wilder 422s? I don't know just throwing stuff out there.

Matt
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
421 or 438 will work well now and still good with bodies later on, 422 will make more power on bodies but won't work well in the mean time.
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
All the catcams are around 550 if I'm not mistaken if I was to go with 421s could I runs standard valves an springs now an later with bodies ? At a guess it would be around the 200 mark if I ccould to the 170 to 180 torque that would be great. The company I work for does a lot of xe s for hotrod an rally but they are all dry sump. You may of heard of it Anderson racing engines.?
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
standard valve train is fine, BUT it is known a weak point (head snaps off stem)

The company you work for should be able to get you the cams at trade i would think, unless your boss hates you!
 
L

Laine_16v

  HBT 172 Cup
Cat 421's will work fine on standard lifters, valve springs and retainers. They should net you 170 - 180ft lbs and 205 - 210bhp (on a standard engine)
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Fred don't get me wrong he's helped out a lot getting my rods pistons boring knifedging the crank etc all for next to nothing, ill probs just go for the valves an stick with the standard springs I have two sets ill check them all to see if any have dropped in weight. Do you do omex mapping?
 
C

Chip-mk1

  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
I've heard of Anderson. Quite well known for XE engines.
Pretty much anyone who can map will have done engines on omex.
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
Fred said:
do you have a goal? Lets say 195-200bhp cira 170 torques? that's realistic on the stock ecu and FBW/inlet with a high comp bottom end, any more than that then you'll be needing throttle bodies
Click to expand...

no

you can do 210 on 422s with high comp on stock inlet with relative ease. Torque will be no more than 165lb/ft, and both curves will be a lot peakier than with throttle bodies, but it will drive well if done properly

FBW doesn't need replacing, just use a GEN90 ECU. Definitely keep VVT, there's no down side, and nothing but advantages from having control of the cam timing
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
Laine_16v said:
Cat 421's will work fine on standard lifters, valve springs and retainers. They should net you 170 - 180ft lbs and 205 - 210bhp (on a standard engine)
Click to expand...

again, no, the most you'll get from these on stock inlet is going to be 200bhp and 165lb/ft


I sold my 172 on stock inlet, running 421s without issues. We got round the idle problems with some adjustments
 
M

mattyhaz

  pulsar
Thanks to all have pmed everybody if your interested in the new year let me know.
Cheers Matt

ps merry Christmas
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
Dan@519Automotive said:
no

you can do 210 on 422s with high comp on stock inlet with relative ease. Torque will be no more than 165lb/ft, and both curves will be a lot peakier than with throttle bodies, but it will drive well if done properly

FBW doesn't need replacing, just use a GEN90 ECU. Definitely keep VVT, there's no down side, and nothing but advantages from having control of the cam timing
Click to expand...

well there is a downside, you need to spunk an extra £1000 on an ecu ;)

422's on stock inlet are horrible, just way too peaky IMO
 
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