Hillpower or Killpower

[rt172]

Ive just bought a 2nd hand Hillpower induction kit. The IK has a heat shield, but it is in a bit of a dozy place (The side furthest away from the engine!). The top of the IK is totally open and the hole for the air feed is tiny. The result is what feels like a major loss of power at all revs when the engine bay is even slightly warm due to all the hot air being sucked in the huge open bit at the top. Im not sure how Hillpower can claim any sort of power increase from this at all?!

Ive fabricated a sealed plastic shield to go over the top of the kit, but I have to say that the design really isnt that great and I would have expect more from a company like Hillpower. It would be so easy to produce it with a clip on air-tight shield for the top bit.

Does anyone else think that this is a fatally flawed design? Are there any sealed Induction Kits available for the Willy? Will probably go back to using the airbox with a K&N filter in there as that seemed alright compared to sucking in huge amounts of hot air!

Rhys

 

[Matbrown]

The whole point of an induction kit is for the noise, if you want a sealed air box then stick with the one that renault designed and fitted and just stick a replacement element in it.

My mate with a willy has a k&n fitted and although he notices the power loss he keeps it just for the induction noise you get when planting the throttle!



Mat.

 

[rt172]

Quote: Originally posted by matbrown on 31 March 2003


The whole point of an induction kit is for the noise

Not according to the Hillpower website.

http://www.hillpower.co.uk/newwilly.htmlhttp://www.hillpower.co.uk/newwilly.html





"IND16VCL
We use a Ramair foam filter housed in a cold air induction cone of our own design. The induction housing is fed with cold air from the front of the vehicle and allows the cold air to be circulated to and around the induction filter, giving a power gain of approx 4-5 bhp. The kit comes complete with all necessary hoses, clips, and fitting instructions"


If Id bought this from new Id be pretty pissed off.

 

[Ben H]

Im with Mat on this one mate. Theres no way that youd buy an IK for a 16v/Willy (172/Cup as well??) for power gains if you had the chance to try before you buy - not even a Hill Power one. I run one because its too difficult to re-locate my second fuel regulator and I love the noise!

 

[rt172]

I remember that Wayne (aka Slugger) had a BMC sealed induction kit on his MK1 172 which sounded great and made a much more direct route for the cold air to reach the filter. Thats what I was hoping for and havent got. Im suprised that Im the only person who finds Hillpowers website misleading regarding this. "...giving a power gain..." - yeah, whatever!!!!

And no, I didnt try before I bought it. I looked it up on Hillpowers website and it doesnt do what it says on the tin.

 

[Ben H]

The BMC is a sealed induction system - so is your airbox!

 

[Nick Read]

I had em all... a bog standard air box (OK), K&N IK (noisy but didnt feel any quicker to me, if anything, slower), Hill Power IK (better than the K&N and felt a bit quicker than usual), standard airbox with K&N element (best up to that point), then finally BMC carbon airbox which was the nuts under any conditions. SHame I blew it up really.

 

[wongy008]

rhys

this topic comes up now and again but it depends on what you want

. you probably would get 4/5 BHP gains from any ind kit but only on RR where there is a constant feed of cold air.as you have found out using the ind kit on the car to drive around in is pointless esp with the rising air temp , also dont even consider using a idn in the summer, and yes its crap for pefromance. on my valver i lose soo much torque and inital pick up off the line is totally crap with it

i got both set ups and run both now and again( not at same yime obviously)as even though i lose so much performance with the ind kit the noise that a valver/willy makes with a ind kit if bloody mental. its sounds so bloody good.i use do use it now and again just to give it large in as everyone can hear you coming however far away they are but to drive fast in the STD airbox with performance element is the best for fast driving,

also the ind is also a waste off even if you do loads of motorway mileage the std airbox is best for driving fast.

ind also make car run richer too using much more petrol. im using sd airbox now but it wont be long before i want that ind kit roar and turbo esque whistle as half throttle.

only use ind if you want the noise.

all ind users go put ur airbox back on and take ur car fora long drive. u will be very suprised how much performance you would of lost just by wanting that mental ind roar

wongy

 

[rt172]

Fair comments Wongy, I am more disappointed in Hillpower than anything else. The kit is currently working better than my airbox as I have constructed a makeshift airtight heat shield, but its too flimsy to leave there permenantly.

I reckon that ramair filter is much less restrictive than even an OE airbox with a K&N. Ive got a good cold air tube set up, it sounds nice and the engine seems very lively, but its still just acrylic sealed up with radiator sealant tape and duct tape!

If Hillpower had made the kit with the bit Ive taped on, they might actually be able to claim some sort of increase, but it doesnt say "4-5bhp when the cars on rollers and youve got your bonnet open and when theres a fan and you prefer noise to power" on their website.

It also claims in that text that it increases cold air flow to the filter. If you see the IK, it is clear that that is blatently not true. The open top of the "heat shield" is so much larger than the tiny feed for cold air that there is no way that the colder air will get a look in.

If the rest of their descriptions are as misleading as the one for the IK, then I dont think Ill explore the rest of their range as I was intending to

 

[jimbo9999]

well the theory behind it is that hot air rises so the hot air goes up and the cold air feed from the bumper pushes any hot air that comes from the engine up i have also used both setups and i think i get more power from the hill power ik and i am very happy with mine.

jaimie

 

[BenR]

Yes, but you also have to take into account turbulant flow inside the bay, as its got nowhere to go really, except out the wheel arches, under tha car and the scuttle gap. Not to mention the rad which is right infront of it. So, you will need to carry some heavy airspeed to keep a clear area of cooler air around the filter.

I cant comment on the HP kit as i have never tested it.

But he does seem to be getting some gyp recently for no apparent reason. Im sure he wouldnt mind a short call/email to discuss it.

 

[DTWD]

Did you get the blue induction piping and cap thing? (as seen in the picture)

http://www.hillpower.co.uk/images/photo/megane%2016v%20ind.jpg



Paul

 

[BRUN]

the fibreglass thing acts as more than a heatshield, it makes sure the cold air drawn in surrounds the filter, rather than like a usual induction kit where you just get a small bit of ducting to point at the filter

 

[Jayc]

Thats still not a completely sealed system. I doubt that setup will give you any HP gains.

 

[STICKER TWONK]

Personally, I reckon Ive got the best chance of any gains, 1.4RT mk1 phase 2 clio with k&n, one cold air feed. Before you all start going what a load of cack, Ive a vavler bonnet and the hole in the bonnet sits directly above the filter, therefore any hot air should be going out the hole and there should be less hot air being drawn in, I say less cos obviously hot airs running over it to get out. See pic

http://members.lycos.co.uk/zclio/My_Clio/30-03-03%20003.jpg

You can just see the filter under the hole above my dodgy hair cut

 

[N.D.Hill]

Rhys. I am sorry that you do not feel that you have gained any performance with our ind kit. When developing the kit we tried to protect the air filter from the hot air out of the radiator cooling unlike any of the kits that were available at the time also taking into account cost. When we ran the kit on a set of rollers against a K+N we found that with the bonnett open both set ups were giving 4 to 5 bhp, with the bonnett closed the K+N lost any gains against a standard set up, we however still had an increse of 4 bhp. The kit was produced following customer demand and fashion. I agree that the kit could be made better but the cost would increase. To assist the ind kit we now also produce an under bumper cold air ind scoop. Again i am sorry that you feel the way you do. How much more would you expect to pay for a kit that may give you another 6 bhp?

 

[rt172]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the reply. I notice that BenR says you have been getting a slating recently, that isnt my intent, I think Ive managed to clearly state why Im disappointed with the kit/description and not just had a go for no reason.

I would pay for a shield to go over the top part of the induction kit to seal it off. My own home made shield isnt great and wont last long, but the car feels more like what I was hoping for with it on. If you had something like that available as an optional extra on top of the kit, I would buy it.

Ill send you a pic of what I have constructed if that will help explain what Im on about?

Cheers,

Rhys

 

[Dave Hester]

Personally I think the best option for maximum cold air flow is just to keep the standard airbox with a performance panel filter.

Even better is to do exactly what ive done, remove the passenger side fog light and rig up a scoop in its place with a pipe that connects from that on to the bottom of the airbox, this way you can ram cold air straight into the engine

this really does work as its exactly what Renault race and rally teams used on there clio 16v/willys in the 90s

I doubt the bmc or viper kits are much better

 

[funkimic]

im thinkin of adding the fog light scoop idea on my 1.8 16v. do you have any probs with water gettin up there??

 

[Mike Wright]

ZEd thats one hell of a paint job! How can I get clouds and a hologram done on mine!

 

[aaronc]

Interesting topic.

When i got first got my car (i was young 19) and didnt know much about engines at all. Some lad who owned a VW16vGti said if i drill some holes in the airbox it sounds wicked....................so i did Perfectly round holes only underneath and facing the front if the car for the cold air.

It sounded amazing and have never changed it to this day, not cause i am a tight arse, but because it doesnt seem to slow me down.

Now people who know my clio know it certainly aint slow and to this day still trying to work out why??? Was is renualt quality control staff that were in a good mood?? OR is it the holes letting cold air from the front and underneath the car????

I know instantly alot of you will say bollox! Drilling holes in ya airbox is probably the worst thing to do and I would probably agree with you, however i do seem to have the fastest std clio 16v, could this be a factor into the performance or was it a good day for the staff at the renualt factory??

aaron

 

[Paul16V]

I dont think there is anything wromg with doing that to be honest. As long as the holes are drilled before the filter. Best thing to do is run a k and N element. The filter wouldnt make that much difference though. 4 to 5bhp isnt that noticeable really. You might notice it is more responsive.

I have just bought the Hill power filter of Rhys, Main reason is because I wanted the flat ramair filter as this is one of the few that gives you any space to work around, and the shape of the filter looks less restrictive and should provide good laminer flow into the throttle body .

I am fabricating an air box made of aluminium sheet which will be slightly bigger than the hill power kit and will be sealed. Then probab;y running a pipe down to the front bumper.

Just wondering how do you get a cold air scoop to the fog light? where is it in the engine bay and where does the standard filter pipe fit into? I ever had one on mine. It looks like it goes to nowhere.