Horrible clanking/scraping from engine on full lock

[nosluom]

Hi all

Can anyone help me out with a problem i'm having at the moment? Whenever i'm pulling off or reversing when the car is cold or has been sitting for a bit, i get a horrible clanking grinding sound when on full lock. It does it on full lock both ways but is fine when not on full lock. The noise seems to appear the second the clutch is engaged. For example when i reverse out my drive in the morning and put full lock down it sounds absolutely horrendous. I cannot pinpoint where the noise is coming from at all but it sounds like the area where the aux belt is and all the gubbins down there although i'm not positive on this because it's hard to pinpoint. I also have a creaking sound at the moment when driving normally on full lock.


I replaced the ball joints, inner and outer arb bushes and track rod ends yesterday thinking this might sort it but it hasn't. I also tried the washer fix on the top mounts.

Any ideas guys? I wouldn't normally mind the odd creak but this is really loud and sounds bad

 

[mgoode180566]

driveshaft ?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Power steering pump, by the sounds of it.

Check the fluid level as a first port of call.

 

[nosluom]

driveshaft ?

i've thought about the driveshaft but i don't wanna go to all the effort if it's not that how would i know if it's the drive shaft? The CV boots all look fine

 

[nosluom]

Power steering pump, by the sounds of it.

Check the fluid level as a first port of call.

I'll check the fluid level as soon as i get home. I bloody hope it's not the pump, we've not long replaced the aux belt Do you reckon it could be the steering rack catching on something?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Try it with the car completely stationiary (ie in neutral) and turn it full lock and hold it there.

 

[nosluom]

Try it with the car completely stationiary (ie in neutral) and turn it full lock and hold it there.

If it doesn't do it in neutral does that mean it's not the pump?

 

[Chip-mk1]

If it doesn't do it in neutral does that mean it's not the pump?

Pretty much mate yes, if its not doing it when the car is stationary then its likely to be drivetrain not engine.

 

[nosluom]

well i've just got home from work and i've not been in my car today so the car is completely cold. Just started the engine up in neutral and moved the steering side to side, it's doing it now without even going on full lock! It's literally so loud it sounds awful, i daren't even use the car. What the hell could it be?? Is something catching somewhere??

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounds like the pump is knackered to me mate.

If its doing it in neutral then it cant be cv joints etc as they arent turning.

If the pump fails badly enough you will end up with the aux belt wrapped around the bottom pulley, and that often leads to the cambelt jumping, and hence bent valves etc.

 

[nosluom]

oh christ really why would it be making such a metallic scraping sound? I'm not too clued up on the power steering pump so i'm not sure what moving parts it has to fail. Just to add to it, literally after a few turns either way it goes back to doing it on full lock only. When you're on full lock, the more you rev the engine the louder it gets, the sound is definately coming from the aux belt area as well. Thanks for replying so quick by the way mate, really appreciate your help

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lack of fluid is the normal reason they start to go wrong in the first place, once they start though, they just get worse and worse.

Did you check the fluid level?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is it a cup or non cup?

Cup is pretty easy to change, non cup its a lot harder.

 

[nosluom]

yeah i just checked the fluid level mate, it's absolutely fine! Mega strange it's just started to go wrong all of sudden. Could the steering rack still be a suspect?

 

[nosluom]

its a non cup by the way i'm so annoyed if it is the PAS pump because we changed the aux belt about 4 months ago

 

[Chip-mk1]

I dont see why the rack would give you noises related to engine RPM to be honest mate.

From what you are saying I would be fairly sure its the pump, but obviously impossible to tell for certain across the net.

 

[Chip-mk1]

its a non cup by the way i'm so annoyed if it is the PAS pump because we changed the aux belt about 4 months ago

If its any concilation, doign the belt again will only be about 5% of the job anyway! lol

Ive got a pump to change on my mrs one, I did the aux belt on that only a couple of months ago, doing the belt again is a total non event though compared to the ballache of getting the pump out!

 

[nosluom]

ahhh god i take it it's a massive job then would it be worth me removing the aux belt first and starting the car up to see if it still makes the noise without the power steering pump being driven?

 

[Alastair.]

Remove belt and start the engine to confirm the noise has gone, then go from there.

 

[Chip-mk1]

ahhh god i take it it's a massive job then would it be worth me removing the aux belt first and starting the car up to see if it still makes the noise without the power steering pump being driven?

Yeah thats the easiest way for a definitive check.

It runs the water pump too though, so dont run it for too long of course.

 

[nosluom]

cheers mate!

 

[nosluom]

guys can i just add a bit of info on this to try and shed some more light. I used the car last night and i've used it for work today. I've noticed the horrible noise only appears when the car is cold and has been sitting for a while, how the hell can this be? For example i parked up in work this morning and went back to it at dinner to drive the supermarket. Drove out of my space in work on full lock and it sounded horrendous, horrible grinding clanking sound again. Parked up at the supermarket, got back in a couple of mins later with the car still warm, reversed out on full lock and not a peep. Only does it when cold, how can this be?

 

[mgoode180566]

mine did this last year ....... the crank pulley fell apart. the crank pulley is in two parts with a rubber damper. it fell apart and damaged the cambelt bending all of the valves in the process. it only made a metallic noise when on full lock and load from the pump was going through the auxiliary system.

 

[Chip-mk1]

mine did this last year ....... the crank pulley fell apart. the crank pulley is in two parts with a rubber damper. it fell apart and damaged the cambelt bending all of the valves in the process. it only made a metallic noise when on full lock and load from the pump was going through the auxiliary system.

The rubber holding it together is softer when hot too.

 

[daveypower]

Jaysus dont be driving it man, get it checked

 

[skinz]

Its the power steering pump - exactly same symptoms i had, started off now and again, the more often, mainly on cold but deteriorated quickly (within 1month), and started showing signs when warm also. It had started making some noises around 4months before I decided to get it checked out by specialists when it became daily.

My car has just turned 80k if that helps to compare , nice new pas pump/ water pump/ dephaser/ sparks - probs most investment its had in the last 5years - only had it myself for 1 year, but beginning to run nicely now

 

[nosluom]

thanks for your input guys, i'm guessing this is gonna cost me mega bucks Driving the car to work this morning there's now a really bad constant squeeking coming from the aux belt area so somethings definately f**ked down there that's being driven by the aux belt. How much am i gonna be looking at for this you reckon? If it's the crank pulley will i need the cambelt changing too? I guess if it's the power steering pump that can be replaced without replacing anything else seeing as it had a new aux belt kit a few months back? fml

 

[The Dominator]

I wouldn't be driving the car until it is sorted or you atleast no what it is mate

 

[nosluom]

i was thinking the same mate and i've gotta do a 70 mile round trip to manchester tonight

 

[Chip-mk1]

thanks for your input guys, i'm guessing this is gonna cost me mega bucks Driving the car to work this morning there's now a really bad constant squeeking coming from the aux belt area so somethings definately f**ked down there that's being driven by the aux belt. How much am i gonna be looking at for this you reckon? If it's the crank pulley will i need the cambelt changing too? I guess if it's the power steering pump that can be replaced without replacing anything else seeing as it had a new aux belt kit a few months back? fml

If its the pulley then basically yes you need do the cambelt too, actual cost of the pulley secondhand is very little though so shouldnt cost you much more than a normal belt change would.

If its the pump, its a bit of a ballache on a non cup but I would say still DIYable if you are competent with spanners and at least no need to touch the cambelt that way, no problem re-using the aux belt IMHO

 

[Chip-mk1]

i was thinking the same mate and i've gotta do a 70 mile round trip to manchester tonight

Sod that TBH, ticking timebomb whichever item driven by that belt it is making the noise, and if the aux belt gets spat off its likely to get under the cambelt which causes it to jump, at which point you will need the head off and new valves at the very least, and quite possibly a whole new engine (depending on what speed it fails at)

 

[The Dominator]

Last thing you want is anything else going wrong mate and if it was Pulley related and something went wrong you could be looking at head of job wich is not cheap..

Park it up until you can get it fixed imo

 

[nosluom]

god ok guys massively appreciate your input. My dad a mechanic and would be able to do the replacement no probs i just don't like hassleing him any more for big jobs like this, he kinda agrees to doing them but i know deep down he hates having to. Looks like i'll be giving northwest performance a ring

 

[The Dominator]

Hope you get it sorted mate

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sorry mate, dont know what was going through my head there! I forgot the F4R aux pulley is seperate from the cambelt one, so you shouldnt have to touch the belt either way (sorry been working on others engines more recently and had a mental block there !)

 

[nosluom]

Sorry mate, dont know what was going through my head there! I forgot the F4R aux pulley is seperate from the cambelt one, so you shouldnt have to touch the belt either way (sorry been working on others engines more recently and had a mental block there !)

ahh cool so you mean if it is the crank pulley i won't need to replace the cambelt?

 

[nosluom]

thanks for all your help by the way guys, i'd be lost without this forum for the amount of problems i've had!

 

[Chip-mk1]

ahh cool so you mean if it is the crank pulley i won't need to replace the cambelt?

Yes, you should be able to remove just the outer part of the crank pulley that drives the aux belt, and leave the part that drives the cambelt in situ.

Its still not totally trivial though, as you would still need to make sure the cambelt was correctly timed afterwards as you risk moving the pulley (sadly it isnt keyed on the clio version of this engine, only on the meggy one) but at least it would save you the cost of a cambelt kit and some of the hassle of doing it.

 

[nosluom]

Yes, you should be able to remove just the outer part of the crank pulley that drives the aux belt, and leave the part that drives the cambelt in situ.

Its still not totally trivial though, as you would still need to make sure the cambelt was correctly timed afterwards as you risk moving the pulley (sadly it isnt keyed on the clio version of this engine, only on the meggy one) but at least it would save you the cost of a cambelt kit and some of the hassle of doing it.

ok thanks mate!! I'm gonna give northwest performance a call in a bit and see what the say about pricing etc

 

[Darren S]

Wherabouts are you based? 70miles north of Manchester or south of it?

D.