hybrid'n the dCi engine ( K9K )

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

quick few questions for the lads on here that generally know about engines and hybrid builds ( no im not talking about eco bashing freindly combo's )

it has come to the point now were i want more power from my dCi unit, but after some research its come to the conclusion that,

A. i am limmited to 130 bhp due to injectors cannot handle anymore on these engines
B. clutch cannot take much more torque after topping the 110-120bhp mark ( easy fix , just an uprated clutch i pressume )
C. turbo's are slightly resticted, as is the boost/map sensor
D. internals... nobody really knows the ' limmits ' of anything such as con-rods or cylinder head components

before i go any thurther, you may ask why i would want to upgrade my dci engine instead of swapping to a more powerful unit,
its simply becuase i want to do this the fun way and learn a thing or two about these engines through modifying them
and changing units such as a 1.9 dci unit or 2.0 dci unit maybe more hassle to make it work in such small space

right questions!

1. how do i go about changing injectors for bigger cc version? ( currently no straight swap aftermarket kits )

2. hybrid turbo setups, how is this done and is it more rewarding than cranking up the boost on my current standard turbo ?

3. internals, ie con-rods , top end components, pistons ect... can i bore out the k9k 702 engine and fit bigger pistons, re work head to suit? arp rod bolts ?

4. will a VAG gearbox fit this engine with bellhousing modifications?

5. oil cooler, currently got a standard oil cooler on which uses coolant around it as an aid for warming up the engine... can this be changed for a oil rad non linked to cooling system??

and lastly
6. engine managment/running brain, easier to try map it on original ecu or go aftermarkets due to the better perameters and easy of changing stuff when parts get more modified?


sorry if this is abit boring to explain but any info will be greatly appreciated

cheers , raz

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Anyone??

 

[Dan519]

injectors, you'll have to do some research and possibly do a lot of measurements until you find some that fit which can supply enough fuel. Diesel injectors are pretty simple things


Speak to a turbo reconditioner like turbo-dynamics, turbo-technics, Owen developments. Turbo-Technics are probably your best bet if you tell them your intentions.

internals, well a DERV is already very high compression, and you won't be revving high. There's 2 types of piston and rod that were standard fit, the main difference is the gudgeon pin being 25mm or 26mm, I would go for the larger gudgeon if trying to build a strong engine, but that means having the rods to match. I know you can get 0.5mm oversize pistons. ARP's I'd say aren't necessary as you won't be revving high.

gearbox....well anything will fit with enough work. I wouldn't bother personally

Oil cooler, keep the Modine system, If you want an oil cooler (have you measured oil temps? I'd be surprised if they're high) then use a sandwich plate just like you would on a 172 etc.

ECU, there's not many aftermarket systems that can cope with diesel, and the map for a diesel is pretty simple so the stock ECU should be adequate

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Thanks dan , that's explained allot of us full information.

Do you knw the size of Megane 1.9 injector ? I assume the feed pipe and nut to the injector cannot be much different in size

As for the oil temps, I wasn't intentionally changing it due to the temps. Just purely down to this engine has had two oil coolers goo on it now. It's now on its third. Oil getting into coolant down to the jacket in the oil cooler failing? And was wanting to change it for a more reliable system

Also which DCI engine came equipped with 26mm gudgeon pinned pistons? Guessing the DCI 100 was as they are ment to be built more stronger internally

 

[Scrooge]

I spent a lot of time conversing with Delphi about e injectors for my 80. They don't do anything that fits at all unfortunately. I would personally go to an injector specialist who may be able to change the nozzles and set them up correctly.

As Dan says with regards to hybrid ing the turbo, I used turbo technics and I'm very happy. Hybrids will make it drive a lot smoother generally, not just one lump of power it will spread it right across your rev range.

Ive also heard people have used the 220cdi from ther mercs with a custom manifold.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I emailed delphi about there injectors too, no very us full info mind, I also asked why the 80 injectors are crap on idle and such, there outcome was down to improper set up and a poor internall solenoid something.

Think I may see if I can get some Audi/vw pd150 injectors to work if the fit the bore of the original Renault injectors.

As for the turbo, I'm defiantly going to give turbo techs a ring , to discuss my possible options for making the current or another turbo just as good as now. In the instance of what you said, not just one barrel load of boost for such short rpm range

How much we talking for merc 220cdi turbo's ?

Main plan is to buy a relitively sub 100k mile DCI 100 engine and strip it back to bare bones

The other thing is, to skim the head or not, i had my head skimmed and now it's tapping allot louder than a normal no skimmed head. Dont know if thats down to the hydraulic tappers need resetting or not

 

[Dan519]

k9k doesn't have hydraulic tappets, it uses solid lifters which you have to change to adjust clearances

 

[Scrooge]

Yer it took me ages to get anything decent out of them too.

Turbo techs should definitely be able to sort you out, I'm not ure they will do anything with the Borg Warner unit you have though. With the c220 turbo it's the manifold that will be costly, a second hand turbo won't be much tbh.

The dci 80 my dad owns had a fair bit of headwork done and there's no extra knocking.

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Dan: Oh s**t, am I doing any damage with the original solid lifters in? I have noticed it's got more heavy on fuel and it's stinks of unburnt diesel on idle after a warm run.

Scrooge , i'll have a look around for one, got a lad near me that does custom exhausts so hopefully he can marry my OEM turbo mani to the 220cdi mani joint.

I definatly know the Borg Warner turbo on mine doesn't seem very popular to tweak, even the Nissan equivilant doesn have much going for it either

Hmm, strange my engine has a tapping noise then, I know the head got skimmed , and a little too far something to so with part of the head was 7thouw thinner. Then the engine got rebuilt with 2gasket to make up the clearance, instead of using a decompression gasket

 

[Dan519]

Dan: Oh s**t, am I doing any damage with the original solid lifters in? I have noticed it's got more heavy on fuel and it's stinks of unburnt diesel on idle after a warm run.

you need to check the clearances, but unless you had the valve seats recut or changed the valves, they're unlikely to be massively wrong.

You could however have done damage to an injector, the tips are very delicate and faulty injectors can knock like a b**ch

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

I'll get it booked In at tdi tunning near me to have a look at it or Fred. Noting as changed to the valves r seats, just the head got skimmed.

I think I may have damaged an injector. It's definatly eating more fuel than It should, 360miles out of a tank and thatd taking it easy :/
and the tapping/nocking noise never goes away. Engine runs slightly lumpy and you can hear it through the exhaust exit,

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Just been to tdi tunning today, they said my car sounds like two injectors are starting to fail, and that my solid lifters defiantly will need replacing.

Whats best, let them take the job on (basicly putting allot of trust in them as I haven't had work dne there before ) or run it down to Fred's when I'm back for a second opinion and possibly get the work carried out by him after initial diagnosise