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Injectors & Fuel pump



tom172cup

tom172cup

  big boost cup
Going to fit my new engine in a couple of weeks. And i need to uprate my injectors to a size that i dont know yet think about 630cc. so my problems are
How do i find out the correct size and where to buy from. also will the standard fuel pump be up to the job.
any ideas would be appreciated
 
tom172cup

tom172cup

  big boost cup
Im aiming at around 320 ish more would be a bonus. It may also be making a trip up to you guys at some point for mapping etc
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
i would say you might want a better pump, but paul's the man for that, stock pump is a walbro anyway from memory
 
tom172cup

tom172cup

  big boost cup
ive had a look on the web and you can get the injectors for about 40 each plus delivery.
Scott have you got a link for the pump
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
watch out for cheap injector/ones from ebay, alot of dodgy ones out there from the far east (basically copies of the real thing)
 
tom172cup

tom172cup

  big boost cup
Fred@BTM said:
watch out for cheap injector/ones from ebay, alot of dodgy ones out there from the far east (basically copies of the real thing)
Click to expand...
These were from a company in the states that sold everthing performance related. they were the derka 630cc ones
 
F

Fred@BTM

  Lionel Richie
and where did they get them? ;) loads of cheap copies flying about so where ever you get them make sure you get a warranty!
 
G

Gray

  340i
tom172cup said:
Fair point looks like i will have to buy the ones from RSTuning then. but
http://www.intengineering.com/Siemens-Deka-630cc-Injector-p3471089.html
Click to expand...

They are the longer size injectors from intengineering.. You would have to modify your fuel rail to fit them!

You need the stubby style (which Paul sells);

1e3831c6.jpg


I run these on my r26 and they are plug and play, no messing!
 
Tutuur

Tutuur

  R5 gtt, R27 F1 team
are the siemens deka 630cc's low impendance? iirc thats what the original ecu needs...
 
A

ayk2008

  Clio 172 ph2
RSTuning said:
How much power are you wanting? 630's are roughly enough for 400hp
Click to expand...

K-Tec use Weber Pico 430cc (yellow) by Magnetty Marelly in their turbo conversion kit (up to 350 bhp as they write). However I think that for ITB conversion the Pico IWP043 are OK as soon as hey are 330cc and have 4-holes as original. Really you can get up to 430cc from them with fuel pressure regulator, as soon as they really are:
At 3 bar 329 cc
At 4 bar 377 cc
At 5 bar 421 cc

- so they have a wide range for tuning!​

P.S. Any ideas about how much the original 172's are? I read that they are 250cc, but I want to verify that for sure!!!
 
A

ayk2008

  Clio 172 ph2
Ooops ... Check again the K-Tec, but can not edit anymore... So:

Weber Pico IWP069 by Magnetty Marelly (Yellow) are 490cc

Is that is for more then 350bhp - it seems that original 172's are 250cc, 197/200's are like 280cc and you you can use 330 cc for up to 240bhp projects at standard 3 bar fuel pressure
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
ayk2008 said:
K-Tec use Weber Pico 430cc (yellow) by Magnetty Marelly in their turbo conversion kit (up to 350 bhp as they write). However I think that for ITB conversion the Pico IWP043 are OK as soon as hey are 330cc and have 4-holes as original. Really you can get up to 430cc from them with fuel pressure regulator, as soon as they really are:
At 3 bar 329 cc
At 4 bar 377 cc
At 5 bar 421 cc

- so they have a wide range for tuning!​


P.S. Any ideas about how much the original 172's are? I read that they are 250cc, but I want to verify that for sure!!!
Click to expand...

they stopped using those long ago and moved over to using megane 225 injectors for most things as they are so good and 440cc so good for around 330bhp on anything with a fuel return (less capacity on regulator in tank systems)
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
ayk2008 said:
Ooops ... Check again the K-Tec, but can not edit anymore... So:

Weber Pico IWP069 by Magnetty Marelly (Yellow) are 490cc

Is that is for more then 350bhp - it seems that original 172's are 250cc, 197/200's are like 280cc and you you can use 330 cc for up to 240bhp projects at standard 3 bar fuel pressure
Click to expand...

the Pico yellows are a horrible spray pattern. they're really designed as a stand off injector, IIRC they're original equipment on some ducati's? good for a precise jet of fuel from externally, but very poor atomisation. They're like turning on a tap.
 
A

ayk2008

  Clio 172 ph2
519 Automotive said:
they stopped using those long ago and moved over to using megane 225 injectors for most things as they are so good and 440cc so good for around 330bhp on anything with a fuel return (less capacity on regulator in tank systems)
Click to expand...

My friend bought K-Tec turbo kit 3 years ago and there was exactly Pico IWP 069 which are 490ccCheck K-Tec website and it seems that they still sell the same Pico as a part for turbo convertion (yellow ring):
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2831&appid=2

Do you mean that they use Megane's injectors for their own projects but still sell Pico to the customers?


519 Automotive said:
the Pico yellows are a horrible spray pattern. they're really designed as a stand off injector, IIRC they're original equipment on some ducati's? good for a precise jet of fuel from externally, but very poor atomisation. They're like turning on a tap.
Click to expand...

I got the original spares from the garage and got that they are marked as IWP 042 - this is Pico green (250cc). Check the price at Magnetty Marelly, and it is £20 - i.e. 2-3 times lower then from Renault!!!

Any advice about injectors for 240-250 bhp project? Are the IWP 043 (330 cc) good? It has 4 hoses, but with wide Single pattern while IWP 042 has 4 hoses with Split patttern, which is obviously better!
 
A

ayk2008

  Clio 172 ph2
Fred@BTM said:
043's will be fine for you
Click to expand...

What about Clio 197/200 injectors (8200490287)? Are they the same size as 172's?

If 172's injectors can work at up to 200-210 bhp tuned engines, then the 197's injectors should be OK for 230-240 bhp... I order one as a sample (40.00GBP is not too much), but the shipping time is up to 1 month... May be I need to order all 4 just now .... or cancel my order for 1 asap =)

And one more question: how mch is the standard fuel pressure at 172 ph2? Is it possible to increase it without install return from ph1?
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
ayk2008 said:
What about Clio 197/200 injectors (8200490287)? Are they the same size as 172's?

If 172's injectors can work at up to 200-210 bhp tuned engines, then the 197's injectors should be OK for 230-240 bhp... I order one as a sample (40.00GBP is not too much), but the shipping time is up to 1 month... May be I need to order all 4 just now .... or cancel my order for 1 asap =)

And one more question: how mch is the standard fuel pressure at 172 ph2? Is it possible to increase it without install return from ph1?
Click to expand...

197/200 injectors are a strange type with a long tip. If you're buying new, get megane injectors
 
A

ayk2008

  Clio 172 ph2
Gray said:
buy a set of megane RS injectors, they will suit your requirements.
Click to expand...

Are they 430cc? Isn't it too much?

Anyway - thank you for idea. I have Megane 225 too and it is stage 1 now. So I can buy new injectors for my Megane to make stage 2-3, and use the old original Megane's injectors for my Clio!!!!
 
D

Dan519

  DON'T SEND ME PM'S!!
they're 440cc, but have a fantastic spray pattern and are very controllable at low duty. I used them on a ~200hp ITB'd F7R recently and they performed faultlessly and gave great accuracy
 
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