Interesting thread on RR figures and "faking" them

[r8byb]

http://passionford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265886

Clearly shows that not all figures are true and how company's manage to give amazing figures for mods that really arent all that.

 

[Englebert]

Lol, what a suprise its to prove a Miltek exhaust as well, biggest blaggers going.

Big thread on MTorque about it, two rival tuners keep getting different results. People think they have these hugely powerful CSLs then go to another dyno and they are way under standard power!

Its another example of how the motor industry is pretty untrustworthy IMO, you have to take everything with a pinch of salt.

 

[r8byb]

I'd laugh if i go to have a remap etc and they do this.

I'd be like "fancy not fiddling with the settings and doing them on the same ones as before" lets see your 25bhp gain on a 1.2 then lol

 

[jamesp24]

Go to a reliable company simple.

 

[r8byb]

regal, courtney, miltek..

Would you not class them as ment to be reliable? I personally wouldnt, but im sure most would.

 

[sideways danny]

no 2 sets of rollers are the same anyway, Dynodynamics are regarded as being the most consistent generally.

People get far too tied up in peak figures anyway, area under the graph is where it's at.

 

[James5_GTT]

It has been known for a long time about R&R's go to 1 then the next day go to another and the figures would be very different.

The only way to get a an accurate idea of what power you are running is 1/4 mile times and terminal speeds,

 

[Poopensharten]

It has been known for a long time about R&R's go to 1 then the next day go to another and the figures would be very different.

The only way to get a an accurate idea of what power you are running is 1/4 mile times and terminal speeds,

+1

I totally agree here.

AS someone said, no two rollers are the same and there are so many factors involved with rolling a car to get even remotley accurate results.

The direction of the fans, the room tempature, tyre psi, gear shifts etc etc, you could in essence blame it on a number on things for not getting an accurate result.

I always wonder how much an engine will "loosten" up before itll be faster than a brand new one, for instance would a 3 year old 197 with 38k on the clock be alot quicker than one thats just rolled off the production line?

I dont think id bother taking my car to an RR tbh

To blame a reputable company like miltek is silly, they make good products, to say they dont make the claimed bhp gains on a car is wild guess work tbh, again every car will respond different to each exhaust.

This all ofcourse is IMO!

 

[Ian_182]

Exhausts just sound nice,until you have big power they dont really give gains on modern hatches.

Some,if too big a bore will lose power overall

 

[r8byb]

Are you serious WTF

How the hell is an accurate performance output achieved from doing a 1/4 mile with your terminal speed.

I understand no two rollers are the same, im not stating the obvious, im stating that companys fiddle with settings to increase performance gains for products they sell - remaps exhausts whatever.

 

[r8byb]

+1

I totally agree here.

AS someone said, no two rollers are the same and there are so many factors involved with rolling a car to get even remotley accurate results.

The direction of the fans, the room tempature, tyre psi, gear shifts etc etc, you could in essence blame it on a number on things for not getting an accurate result.

I always wonder how much an engine will "loosten" up before itll be faster than a brand new one, for instance would a 3 year old 197 with 38k on the clock be alot quicker than one thats just rolled off the production line?

I dont think id bother taking my car to an RR tbh

To blame a reputable company like miltek is silly, they make good products, to say they dont make the claimed bhp gains on a car is wild guess work tbh, again every car will respond different to each exhaust.

This all ofcourse is IMO!

Have you read any of the old thread ? The tempretures have a 60 + DEGREE difference between intake and ambient temp, so your saying thats not been fiddled with ? Nor the fact the first run is for a 8 cylinder engine and second for 4 cylinder ?

 

[Poopensharten]

^Im not saying anything of the sort mate, my point was its not accurate reading and i think it would have to be a damn expensive set up to get some seriously accurate results

 

[Fred@BTM]

as i understand it you should always run the car in the gear closest to 1:1 engine to box output which in most cars is 4th gear

 

[TooneySonic]

Even results on the same rollers vary from day to day.

I had a thread a short while ago about my cars RR results and remap @ RS tuning.

First time i visited my car produced an average of 156bhp, then when i went back 5 days later to have the map done beforehand it made a suprise 161bhp (however excluding that run the car still averaged the same)

The main thing is after the map i saw a gain of 8bhp and 10lb/ft over the average

the only point of rollers is comparing results on the same day before and after any mods

 

[Mark One]

as i understand it you should always run the car in the gear closest to 1:1 engine to box output which in most cars is 4th gear

thats my understanding, but I always thought it was 5th tbh. Maybe thats just french ratios. It could be calculated.....but it's the weekend...

 

[r8byb]

^Im not saying anything of the sort mate, my point was its not accurate reading and i think it would have to be a damn expensive set up to get some seriously accurate results

Sorry i read your response as "to blame miltek is silly" When its clear from the graphs they are fiddling variables to improve output

 

[LegoHead]

I work with dynamometers at work everyday. My golden rule when doing any testing is never, never do any compensation or fiddling with any readings except for calibrating the sensors.

The only thing to take into account is the rpm of the rollers and the torque, I really dont understand why you would need to compensate for temperature, pressure and relative humidity.

Best thing would be to simply report the power run as it is, along with any scaling and offset figures and calibration status of sensors. Also report the Temp/Pressure/RH.

Then let the customer decide what they want to do with the raw figures. It is very, very easy to get any result you want to if you fiddle with the raw data.

 

[Adey.]

Are you serious WTF

How the hell is an accurate performance output achieved from doing a 1/4 mile with your terminal speed.
QUOTE]


proven fact and the equations are out there to take the terminal speed ure car can run, its weight and backwards calculate them to how much torque and bhp ure car has. ull find that all stock clios run the same terminal speed at the end of a drag strip within a few mph, just mathmatics and not aas nutty as it sounds

 

[Dan R]

Dyno results are just a vague idea of a cars power output. At the end of the day none of it really matters as there are way way way too many factors to take into consideration when dynoing a car in relation to temperatures, type of dyno, how long its been sat on the rollers boiling itself!! etc etc. Take an impreza for example. Its almost impossible to get an accurate reading due to the fact that the intercooler is not receiving forced air into the scoop on a dyno where as on the road it is.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Dyno results are just a vague idea of a cars power output.
205.8 bhp Ben

 

[r8byb]

LOL^^