ITB'S

[timmyd]

If you're fitting ITB'S, is it a must to fit areo catches to the bonnet?

 

[Russ_16v]

Depends what trumpet length you will have, what kit are you using mate?

I used them as I got rid of my slam panel to run 90mm trumpets

 

[Dan519]

it's a must if you want to see worthwhile torque gains. You can run short trumpets, but it's just going to get worse results

 

[Cup_Phil]

It's not entirely a must

You must remove the standard slam panel to run 90mm trumpets, and like everyone else has said 45/60's will lose you torque
But one lad on here had a bar made that went across where the standard slam panel is meant to go but further forward and with a standard bonnet catch on it
That allowed him to run a bonnet without aerocatches and keep the standard release cable etc..

Not sure how much it'd cost to get on fabricated up and painted/powdercoated but if you really want to keep the OEM look it's possible

 

[Fletcher]

Besides IMO aerocatches look great

 

[Dan519]

It's not entirely a must

You must remove the standard slam panel to run 90mm trumpets, and like everyone else has said 45/60's will lose you torque
But one lad on here had a bar made that went across where the standard slam panel is meant to go but further forward and with a standard bonnet catch on it
That allowed him to run a bonnet without aerocatches and keep the standard release cable etc..

Not sure how much it'd cost to get on fabricated up and painted/powdercoated but if you really want to keep the OEM look it's possible

pretty sure the catch let go and flipped the bonnet on that in a very short timespan.

 

[timmyd]

There's a Clio I'm looking at that has ITB'S, but no areo catches, I always thought it was a must on ITB'S.

 

[Dan519]

probably running short ones. It's popular with some due to the no cutting, but it is a compromise

 

[timmyd]

To be honest, if I'm going to buy a Clio with ITB'S, I would rather have the proper set up, and not be wondering what the differences were between the two.

 

[Russ_16v]

As Danny said, id imagine it is just running short trumpets - check what itb's it is running, im sure swapping to a larger trumpet setup if you wish won't be too much of an issue

 

[timmyd]

It's running the AT power throttle bodies.

 

[Fletcher]

It's running the AT power throttle bodies.

I'm guessing you're talking about this car?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...eins-Clio-172-Cup-(TDF-d-amp-BTM-d)-%A3-4-695

TBH it wouldn't bother me, it's making pretty good power anyway.

 

[timmyd]

Yes and yes it's making very good power.

 

[Russ_16v]

lovely car that

 

[Cup_Phil]

The whole "longer trumpets make better power" is a very sore point amongst some tuners/mappers anyway - I've seen pretty good evidence (back to back tests on a car) that proved you can make just as much power/torque on shorter trumpets with a good map - but then people like 519 have said the opposite

TBH a few lbs/ft here or there isn't going to make that much difference
My 90mm trumpets just about fit with the slam panel in place - but there's no room for a filter. If you could be bothered to get some curved 90mm ones made up that angle down slightly that would work too

 

[Porkie]

It's not entirely a must

You must remove the standard slam panel to run 90mm trumpets, and like everyone else has said 45/60's will lose you torque
But one lad on here had a bar made that went across where the standard slam panel is meant to go but further forward and with a standard bonnet catch on it
That allowed him to run a bonnet without aerocatches and keep the standard release cable etc..

Not sure how much it'd cost to get on fabricated up and painted/powdercoated but if you really want to keep the OEM look it's possible

oh will look into that! hate the look of aerocatches and so went shorter bodies with my ATpower itbs

 

[Silent_Scone]

Being honest you're not going to see a lot of difference on a road / track car with the shorter AT bodies, but it's still a compromise of sorts and you (should) make more torque from longer trumpets if the map is any good

 

[Dan519]

The whole "longer trumpets make better power" is a very sore point amongst some tuners/mappers anyway - I've seen pretty good evidence (back to back tests on a car) that proved you can make just as much power/torque on shorter trumpets with a good map - but then people like 519 have said the opposite

TBH a few lbs/ft here or there isn't going to make that much difference
My 90mm trumpets just about fit with the slam panel in place - but there's no room for a filter. If you could be bothered to get some curved 90mm ones made up that angle down slightly that would work too

They don't make better power, they alter the torque curve. If you make big changes in length you see dramatic changes.

These for instance (yes that's right, adjustable length trumpets) made HUGE changes to the torque

 

[Silent_Scone]

FIRE AT WILL

 

[Chip-mk1]

The whole "longer trumpets make better power" is a very sore point amongst some tuners/mappers anyway - I've seen pretty good evidence (back to back tests on a car) that proved you can make just as much power/torque on shorter trumpets with a good map

If you are talking F4r when you say that shorter trumpets still made the same power then it must have had a problem with the map on the before for it to have not dropped torque after.

but then people like 519 have said the opposite

Danny is completely correct about that, anyone saying the opposite to him in this instance in terms of torque figures on an F4R simply doesnt know what they are on about.

TBH a few lbs/ft here or there isn't going to make that much difference

By the same token, no mods you do to an F4R are very worthwhile unless you are going FI then, as just about all mods people do to these engines only make small gains for each mod.

My 90mm trumpets just about fit with the slam panel in place - but there's no room for a filter. If you could be bothered to get some curved 90mm ones made up that angle down slightly that would work too

No filter is great for performance but not so great for reliability, lol.


Ultimately there is a relationship between intake length and where in the rev range it is optimised for, so for out and out power shorter trumpets are not a problem generally as shorter trumpets work better at higher rpm and thats where you will be making peak power by definition on these sort of engines.
The problem is though that the short AT Power ones are so short that you'll probably find they are optimised essentially for about 12000rpm, so going longer isnt going to lose you any power at the sort of revs that most people run, ie only into the 8s at most, and what it will do is gain you torque.

With the F4R engine in particular, due to its unwillingness to rev, it really is a case of longer is better, with some other engines thats less the case.

 

[Silent_Scone]

running no filter on a ph1 is big man balls stuff (or plain daft), one trumpet is properly exposed.

 

[Vicky.]

I've got them because I went for the motorsport upgrade (longer trumpets) and that meant no room for the bonnet catch . Aerocatches FTW.