Lambda sensor causing fault or just a symptom?!

[pug_leg]

Plenty of threads kicking about on this topic but none seem to have the same set of symptoms as my '04 182:

Engine light is on (solid, not flickering)
Car starts perfect, first time, every time
Idle a bit lumpy but perhaps not unusal for these cars
If driving from cold, within a few hundred metres car judders and loses all power (misfire??)*
Pull over and idle for a minute and it drives perfect again
MPG still seems fairly good (mid 30's for short journeys)

*as I use the same route to work daily I always end up losing power going up a steep hill, I assume this is coincidence and not relevant to the fault?

Faults codes:
P0130 -- Oxygen Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0135 -- Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

I guess my question is: do I go ahead and replace the lambda sensor(s), or are they just showing up error codes because of something else. Should I change the coil pack first (especially as it's cheaper), or even TDC? If it was one of these at fault would they throw up their own fault codes too?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[MicKPM]

Firstly disconnect the wiring to the Ho2 and check its intact and not melted on the exhaust. If thats all good then its an Ho2 sensor fault. Had a few do this when the heater element fails. Please buy a decent unit though (Bosch, NGK/NTK) rather then a cheap eBay/universal unit.

Mick

 

[pug_leg]

Thanks MickPM, much appreciated. I'll have a look this weekend and see what I can find.

Might be a stupid question, but what is the 'H' in Ho2?

I'm a bit new to Clios... Where's the sensor (assuming you mean the front one)? I think it's on the exhaust manifold just behind the engine on some cars, and on the exhaust pipe just before the cat on others, but I'm not familiar with the Clio layout.

Local motor factor have Bosch sensors so will probably go with that. Plenty on eBay but most seem to be universal.

 

[tom1987]

just finnished changing mine as i had same symptoms runs loverly now. another thing i know that can cause lambda like symtoms is the map sensor (left side of inlet manifold next to oil filler cap) might be worth taking that off and cleaning out with either brake cleaner or connector cleaner. becarefull taking off as its only thin plastic, (twist it rather then wiggling it out). theres no clips holding it on just a rubber o ring holding it in place. and if u havnt already done this just take the throttle body off and clean the butterfly and the sides as this also causes rough running/idling

hope this kinda helps let me know how u get on

 

[M@tt_182]

just finnished changing mine as i had same symptoms runs loverly now. another thing i know that can cause lambda like symtoms is the map sensor (left side of inlet manifold next to oil filler cap) might be worth taking that off and cleaning out with either brake cleaner or connector cleaner. becarefull taking off as its only thin plastic, (twist it rather then wiggling it out). theres no clips holding it on just a rubber o ring holding it in place. and if u havnt already done this just take the throttle body off and clean the butterfly and the sides as this also causes rough running/idling

hope this kinda helps let me know how u get on

As above be very careful with the MAP sensor I snapped mine in half!:banghead:

 

[pug_leg]

Just picked up a Bosch sensor (0258006046). If anyone else in the south region is after one CAF are selling them for £70.99 inc. vat.

Anyone got any tips on locating, removing and refitting?

 

[MicKPM]

Might be a stupid question, but what is the 'H' in Ho2?.

"Heated" O2 sensor

 

[Timsk7]

Why steer clear of the chaper ones, they that bad?

 

[Dan519]

Why steer clear of the chaper ones, they that bad?

not all bad but it's a bit of pot luck

 

[Timsk7]

Names of ther better makes to look out for????

 

[-J-]

Names of ther better makes to look out for????

As per Mick's post

Firstly disconnect the wiring to the Ho2 and check its intact and not melted on the exhaust. If thats all good then its an Ho2 sensor fault. Had a few do this when the heater element fails. Please buy a decent unit though (Bosch, NGK/NTK) rather then a cheap eBay/universal unit.

Mick

 

[MicKPM]

A genuine OE Bosch is between £90-120. A quality NGK/NTK item is £65-80... why bother risking a £50 ching-chong 'universal' cheapo when this sensor is ultimatly responsible for the correct running/fuelling your car. A universal one may work or appear to work but may also sting your pocket by making the car run rich.

Buy cheap, buy twice!

 

[Timsk7]

Trust me i am a strong beliver in buy cheap buy twice but just done belts and pullys on the car over crimbo hence asking the question.

 

[James28]

On a 182, the pre cat sensor is the one that affects the running of the car.
The post cat sensor (bolted to the end of the cat) only measures emissions and throws up the light.

Rough Idle on start up is quite normal for Sports though.
Try swapping the two Lambda sensors over, see if that improves the engine running.

 

[pug_leg]

Quick update...

Tried to fit the lambda over the weekend but failed - can't get the car high enough off the ground as I don't have a decent jack (yet). Booked the car into a local Renault specialist to replace front lambda tomorrow so hope that will fix things. When I left work today I only managed to get about 1/4mile before it became undriveable - no power, stuttering, almost cut out entirely. After sitting at the lights for 30 seconds it began to behave itself again, then drove home the rest of the way with no problems at all.

Really hoping this is all lambda-related but will post afgain after tomorrow in case anyone else is having similar issues.

 

[Tony Hunter]

99% chance it will be pre cat sensor.

 

[Timsk7]

If your as lucky as me mate the roughness will be the overfueling and as mine has just washed the bores got fuel in the bottom end and killed my engine my advice would be to change it A.S.A.P and stop driving it around just to prevent futher damage.

 

[pug_leg]

Further update... Front lambda changed and fault light reset. No new faults have appeared as yet, but only covered a handful of miles since. A fault also showed up with the rear lambda but this may simply have been as a result of the poor fuelling.

My MPG was high 30's when I got the car but had dropped to around 30 while I had the fault. On the ~8 mile journey home from the garage it climbed to 32 without any careful driving so all signs are good.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Also, the old sensor is black and sooty - is that the sign of a faulty sensor, or could I have just cleaned it!? I'm not going to put it back now, just wondering if the sensor still has some value as a spare or for someone else?


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[Tony Hunter]

I would just bin it.

 

[b2-stingray]

I Have this issue, but after having the codes reset light came back on and new code saying bank one sensor 2, take it thats the rear (post cat)? if i buy a new one can i put it in place of the pre cat and old pre cat in place of the old post cat? Or should i buy 2 new ones??

 

[b2-stingray]

Further update... Front lambda changed and fault light reset. No new faults have appeared as yet, but only covered a handful of miles since. A fault also showed up with the rear lambda but this may simply have been as a result of the poor fuelling.

My MPG was high 30's when I got the car but had dropped to around 30 while I had the fault. On the ~8 mile journey home from the garage it climbed to 32 without any careful driving so all signs are good.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Also, the old sensor is black and sooty - is that the sign of a faulty sensor, or could I have just cleaned it!? I'm not going to put it back now, just wondering if the sensor still has some value as a spare or for someone else?


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check this out..

http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/mfaults.htm

 

[pug_leg]

stingray, thanks for the link. clearly over-fuelling on my case. the cur is running great now (am I tempting fate??) and the fuel consumption figure is steadily climbing back up, so I'm sure changing the sensor has solved it. I think my only concern now is whether there's a similar amount of cr@p inside the exhaust and the cat, but I guess time will tell...

As for your sensors, personally I would change both for new ones for peace of mind, but people with more experience may advise otherwise.

 

[b2-stingray]

I was hoping to just change the front, as long as the back cat it monitoring the emissions ok it wont effect the running of the car will it?

 

[pug_leg]

As far as I'm aware the front one will affect the running of car AND can throw up a warning light, whereas the rear one can ONLY show up a warning light. So if you're only worried about the way it drives then just change the front, if you're worried about having an error light then you may have to change both.

 

[lokqust]

Bit of a thread revival here guys. My cup has similar issues as above and also smells of fuel (standard exhaust), the EML is now on and runs lumpy at idle but perfect with any load. Possible pre-cat lambda? Its had brand new plugs, coil pack, leads and injectors for 2 weeks hoping this would rectify the lumpy idle.

 

[Lil-slugger]

The one on the manifold went on mine, took it off and went down to my mates garage, took the lambda sensor from a rover (bosch one)
Cut the plug from my sensor and soldered it to the second hand plug whacked it back in, turned engine mang light out, swaped my working back sensor to front and the modified to rear ....... £5