Loose wheel nuts!!

[gogsie]

Hey Folks,

Just wondering if anyone has had the same problem as i had recently with my front wheels nuts coming VERY loose during a trackday.

I had the problem last year when i had standard wheels and bolts fitted but they where only slightly loose but still loose!.
I then changed to Pure Motorsport studs and nuts and all has been well for the whole Sprint/Hillclimb season until my latest trackday at Knockhill when at the end of a Hard 2 hr session the wheels almost fell off, They worked their way so loose that one stud actually snapped off in the hub!.

On closer inspection the threads into the hub where still tight so only the wheel side had come loose, I was using Clio Williams wheels and all the studs had some copperslip on them.


p.s: Just to add the brake temps must have been high as i burned off all the High Temp caliper paint i had used when refurbishing the brake's.

I have since been told to ditch the copperslip and use WD40 on the studs which has been done and i'm loooking into getting HD pressed in studs with rally spec zinc plated nuts which are double the length of the old nuts.

Any more suggestion/comments would be greatly apprieciated guys as i don't fancy having my wheels fall off on the next trackday.

 

[gogsie]

anyone had this before??

 

[Budgie]

Lots of people do. Just check them whenever you come in!

 

[Curtis!]

I remember Jenic having this problem at Oulton park, once he cleaned up the bolts from all the s**t/grease they were fine iirc.

 

[DrR]

Mine came loose on the trackday i did.

 

[gogsie]

Lots of people do. Just check them whenever you come in!

Thats the point though i had to come in because they came loose. Other wise i'd have been out all night plus checking them when hot will put more torque into them and possibly cause more problems no?.

Seems a very scary/dangerous situation to have happen i just thought someone may have had a solution.

 

[mat-nos]

should torque them up after every session along with checking the oil/coolant levels and tyre pressures......
90-100nm should be tight enough....

 

[gogsie]

should torque them up after every session along with checking the oil/coolant levels and tyre pressures......
90-100nm should be tight enough....

I always do check torques and they still came loose after about 20 laps. I can't believe i'd have to check them every few laps or so during a Trackday surely, I'm not even doing a race distance during a TD so this is why i'm concerned.

Cheers for the comments so far though.

 

[p@blo]

Unlucky gogs, my nuts usually feel quite tight.

 

[gogsie]

:S

 

[rich-6]

Correct bolts For the wheels? Standard wheels use a 60deg taper bolt!

 

[Tony Hunter]

You were out for 2hrs all at once.If you did then your nuts,this is far to long to be out without checking the car over.Have your wheels been painted? if there is paint where the nuts go then this will make them come loose as well.

 

[Craig.H]

I have done some research into why I lost a wheel at knockhill.

The 3 big things with wheels I found are spigot rings, spacers if you use them and the correct wheel nuts. When it happened to me all 3 were a factor. If only one is wrong though it can lead to things coming loose.

The other point to note is knockhill always puts a lot of pressure on the passengrr front wheel and two hours is a long time to be cornering hard on it

 

[jenic]

I remember Jenic having this problem at Oulton park, once he cleaned up the bolts from all the s**t/grease they were fine iirc.

Yep this happened to me like alex says. After cleaning all the s**t away it was much better, wont be using copper grease on them again.

Still happens occasionally but only on track, I am toqueing them up to around 120ft/lb now and it seems to hold them rather well. Going to get studs though, which reminds me, i need to pm nick172cup...

 

[Jay Payne]

I wouldnt recomend lubricating the threads at all..

Always dry (ooo er!)

You wont get a consistant tourque figure as the lubrcant may compress. It could stress the stud and make it come loose or snap. NEVER use copper slip on a track car. Its melting point is far too low for the temperatures involved. You problem could be that you have tightened the studs up with the lubricant that has then boiled/melted away causing the thread to be loose. If its a little loose it will work its self undone in no time

 

[Gray]

I wouldn't recommend lubricating the threads at all..

Always dry (ooo er!)

You wont get a consistant tourque figure as the lubrcant may compress. It could stress the stud and make it come loose or snap. NEVER use copper slip on a track car. Its melting point is far too low for the temperatures involved. You problem could be that you have tightened the studs up with the lubricant that has then boiled/melted away causing the thread to be loose. If its a little loose it will work its self undone in no time

That!

The only thing I ever do is put a very light brush on of copper slip to the brake disc face / wheel hub hole (note my technical usage of words)..

 

[Jay Payne]

I wouldnt even do that mate, first time the brakes get hot it will just melt run everywhere

 

[Fred@BTM]

grease = no, you're asking to kill yourself

there are lots of "cheap and nasty" studs knocking about, wrong lengths etc etc, incorrect install yada yada

no offense intended here, but stuff like this SHOULD be left to pros (with qualifications!), at the end of the day its a bloody important part!

 

[gogsie]

Ok some factors to look at there, The points about grease have already been rectified and i'm now back to the standard wheel bolts with zero grease and yes i checked all the tapers on the nuts prior to fitting.

The paint on the wheel holes is a good point and i will be sorting that out asap, What about new wheels would you remove the paint in them also?.

I wasn't out for 2 hrs solid the point i was trying to make was that the laps i was doing didn't even add upto a race length and therefore i didn't expect to have to check the bolts every time i came in, guess i won't be using my clio for any 24hr races.

As Fred says before my next Trackday i'll be getting my local Motorsport preparation guys to look the car over, it just goes to show even what you consider is a straight forward thing like fitting some wheels can put you and others in danger.

Thanks for replies guys.

 

[Tony Hunter]

GOOD