Mapping without rolling road?

[konceppt]

Hi all,

I have been looking around for a remapping centre (Mainly for my 2014 Suzuki s-cross Diesel) but also for the clio. I have found so many companies saying they come out to you to map the car?

I have been away from the modded car scene for a while and i cant get my head around how that can be achieved?
If there is no rolling road to show the power the car is making then how can a map be made and optimized for the car?
Can anyone recommend a mapper in Essex/London?

 

[Mr R.]

Engine dynamics are in Essex bud.

 

[glowworm105]

Hi all,

I have been looking around for a remapping centre (Mainly for my 2014 Suzuki s-cross Diesel) but also for the clio. I have found so many companies saying they come out to you to map the car?

I have been away from the modded car scene for a while and i cant get my head around how that can be achieved?
If there is no rolling road to show the power the car is making then how can a map be made and optimized for the car?
Can anyone recommend a mapper in Essex/London?

A lot of maps are generic especially with diesels , they have a file that gets uploaded to the car , no optimizing or anything like that , some are also not very good and will increase things like boost pressure to levels that are not really safe or will increase turbo wear so choose wisely

Sent from my Moto E using Tapatalk

 

[konceppt]

Why do they pitch it as "Better fuel consumption" "increases power" "increases torque" etc
How the hell can that be certain when all cars are operating in different environments?
Uploading a generic map is hardly ideal right?

Are standard oem maps that far out that a generic map can do a much better job?

 

[Mr Plums]

Isn't there a live road map too, where they do the mapping, take the car for a blast up the road and adjust accordingly?

 

[mikekean]

Road mapping is actually the best way to map a car, as your mapping it in its real life environment. But on the open road its a pain in the arse, you need a closed road or test track to do it on really so you don't get into bother with the law.

 

[MarkX]

My X was mapped purely on the road last time, stops you chasing numbers. Most cars are mapped on the dyno then tweaked on the road to finish.

 

[R3k1355]

Isn't there a live road map too, where they do the mapping, take the car for a blast up the road and adjust accordingly?

There is, and it's how some of the better mappers work.
but they'll make a point it's a live map, not just some monkey turning up to your house with a flash device and uploading whatever to the ECU.

 

[JB21]

Live road mapping is best as stated above. First a generic map will be uploaded then you and the tech will take the car for a spin and they will record the likes of AFR, LTFT, boost, fuel pressure etc on a laptop then go back and via a tuning platform will adjust the map to a nice safe level and re-upload. Most if not all diesel tuners won't do this though as a map will be devised to suit the UK in terms of fuel quality, altitude etc, they will be more focused than the OE tune as these have wide parameters built-in for all different countries and their different environments. Just don't go to a back alley tuning company who hasn't put any R&D into their maps. Someone like Celtic tuning are decent and cater for lots of engines.

My old Mazda MPS could be tuned via etune which was great and the future of tuning IMO. All you did was buy a handset which acted as a live logging platform as well as diagnostics, and even gave data so you could get an accurate power/torque figure via 'virtual dyno'. To map your car all you do is record a power run and then download it to an excel file from the handset to laptop and send to a tuner via email, you would then receive an updated map file to upload to the handset and then to the car via the obd and job done you have a nice newly mapped car.

 

[konceppt]

i think if anything this information makes it even more of a minefield. Filtering out the good mappers from the not so good.
At a basic level, what am i looking for in a mapper for both my cars and what can i expect from the cars afterwards?
I'm not expressly intent on chasing numbers but i like the idea of better mpg and a smoother power delivery and more power is always good right?

 

[Knuckles]

Why do they pitch it as "Better fuel consumption" "increases power" "increases torque" etc
How the hell can that be certain when all cars are operating in different environments?
Uploading a generic map is hardly ideal right?

Are standard oem maps that far out that a generic map can do a much better job?

Because joe public isn't as switched on as you and they just want to be able to say to their mates "yeah I got it chipped so it's quick as hell now"

But on the other hand, a generic map is sometimes the best option on a standard car. Unless you've got moderate to serious engine work you shouldn't need a custom map.

 

[glowworm105]

i think if anything this information makes it even more of a minefield. Filtering out the good mappers from the not so good.
At a basic level, what am i looking for in a mapper for both my cars and what can i expect from the cars afterwards?
I'm not expressly intent on chasing numbers but i like the idea of better mpg and a smoother power delivery and more power is always good right?

You will notice the biggest difference from the diesel remap , you will normally gain around 30- 40bhp give or take , everyone has there own opinions on who is good and who is bad

 

[R3k1355]

i think if anything this information makes it even more of a minefield. Filtering out the good mappers from the not so good.

Thats where the internet and owners forums come in handy, most (decent) forums will know who is decent and who is rubbish.
You might have to travel to get to a well respected specialist, but it's worth it.

 

[konceppt]

So what makes the standard map so terrible that a guy can just come to my house and upload a generic map that will give me 40hp more on my suzuki diesel?

 

[JB21]

So what makes the standard map so terrible that a guy can just come to my house and upload a generic map that will give me 40hp more on my suzuki diesel?

As I said above the map uploaded to your car will compensate for other countries crap fuel, different air pressures, weather (hot & cold) so the parameters are wide and not focused to the UK's environment as a generic map from a tuner.

 

[konceppt]

So I shouldn't entirely avoid a tuner that will come to my house then?
Are all the standard ecus reprogrammable then?

 

[JB21]

So I shouldn't entirely avoid a tuner that will come to my house then?
Are all the standard ecus reprogrammable then?

Again as stated above a live mapping session would be best, but for diesel engine's they are few and far between and you'll pay good money. Where are you based and what car and engine do you have?

 

[JB21]

https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/manufacturer-tuning-overview/suzuki-ddis-turbo-diesel-tuning

 

[R3k1355]

Diesel mapping is abit easier than mapping a petrol which is why every dodgy backstreet garage offers it.
Bit more boost, bit more fuel, job done.

It only falls apart when they really don't know what they're doing, or map a total POS and it just explodes after week.
A half decent diesel mapper might still upload a generic map, but they'll do a thorough inspection on the car to make sure there are no adverse reactions.

 

[Karlos182]

I used a company called Angel Tuning to come and remap my old Focus 2.0 TDCi. Yes it was a plug in a laptop and reflash job, but for a standard road car it was absolutely fine. Ran it for over five years without issue. I had it rolling roaded not long after and it went from 136bhp to 171bhp and felt noticeably quicker too.
I looked at Celtic Tuning too, but heard bad things so went elsewhere.

 

[konceppt]

I'm in chigwell in essex.
I have a 2014 Suzuki s-cross 1.6 turbo diesel and a ph2 clio 172
The suzuki is the main one i want done really. Its only done 5000 miles but it feels terrible fueling wise. Seems to be loads of lag and just feels soft.
Seeing the mapper marketing as MORE POWER LESS FUEL is quite appealing

 

[Budgie]

Don't bother mapping the 172 - waste of money if it's standard.

For the suzuki, get on an owners specific forum and find out who's the halo tuner of the moment.

 

[R3k1355]

The 98 Ron map is quite nice on the Clio, does nothing for power but sorts out the annoying idle and smooths the mid-range up abit.
Personally I don't think there's much point N/A tuning the Clio anyway, doesn't respond amazingly well to the usual stuff and changing cams is an arse ache, so end up spending at least a grand to get anything more than 10bhp gains.

 

[konceppt]

JB thanks for the link,
These numbers look good https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/serv...oss-2013/diesel/1-6-ddis-118-bhp-2013/stage-1

Is it legitimate when people say that you get better mpg as well as more power/torque etc?

 

[R3k1355]

Kinda, depends on how you drive and what it was like before.
With abit more grunt it gets upto speed faster and you don't have to thrash it's guts out everywhere.

But if you've got a lead foot it's still gunna have s**t MPG.

 

[JB21]

JB thanks for the link,
These numbers look good https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/serv...oss-2013/diesel/1-6-ddis-118-bhp-2013/stage-1

Is it legitimate when people say that you get better mpg as well as more power/torque etc?

Yeah, as above if driving exactly the same style as before the map then yeah you will see better MPG, this is due to the fact the fuel/air tables et al are manipulated so when on part open throttle it used less fuel (something to do with AFR's & LTFT's tables being changed at certain parameters like RMP's and throttle positions), but on the flip side when on wide open throttle more fuel is used to gain the extra bhp/torque.

Its complicated stuff hence the fact why you want a company that has put the R&D hours in.

 

[konceppt]

Just had a quote from celtic for my suzuki. £360 quid. Seems a bit steep

 

[R3k1355]

Is there any kind of owners club for them?

They might have some answers if you're lucky.

 

[JB21]

Just had a quote from celtic for my suzuki. £360 quid. Seems a bit steep

Not really mate for a reputable mapping firm.