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Max boost pressure
- Thread starter Ph1 Tom
- Start date
What head gasket are you running?
I'm on the megane one and seeing 9-10psi on the limiter, but I've got a restriction somewhere as I've opened out the restrictor 2mm since and got no more boost.
I'm on the megane one and seeing 9-10psi on the limiter, but I've got a restriction somewhere as I've opened out the restrictor 2mm since and got no more boost.
Standard MLS gasket.
I was thinking of fitting an Eaton charger where the alternator used to be and running about 8psi. If I use the standard M45 pulley (65mm) then it'll provide enough air to give 8psi at 7000rpm with the charger spinning at 13,500rpm. That's enough as the power drops off then anyway.
I figured it would be the cheapest way to a bit more power and torque, keep the standard ECU and map it to suit with Meg injectors.
I was thinking of fitting an Eaton charger where the alternator used to be and running about 8psi. If I use the standard M45 pulley (65mm) then it'll provide enough air to give 8psi at 7000rpm with the charger spinning at 13,500rpm. That's enough as the power drops off then anyway.
I figured it would be the cheapest way to a bit more power and torque, keep the standard ECU and map it to suit with Meg injectors.
I don't know how well the std ecu will map to boost. Mine doesn't drop off in power, just keeps pulling.
Stu is running over 300 on the sunflower with the standard ECU. Need to have a chat with Paul at RS Tuning as he mapped that.
Probably because its a larger Rotrex and provides lots of air. The M45 might make it make power for longer than an N/A equivalent on the standard inlet. But on the standard pulley it'll be on the limit of what the engine needs really. Bigger pulley would do it but I'm not after lots of power.
My mate has just had his M45 setup mapped on his MX5. It was 133 at the wheels with a standard 1.8 VVT engine, now its 160 at the wheels with 0.25 bar (dodgy bypass valve limiting boost to 0.25 bar).
Probably because its a larger Rotrex and provides lots of air. The M45 might make it make power for longer than an N/A equivalent on the standard inlet. But on the standard pulley it'll be on the limit of what the engine needs really. Bigger pulley would do it but I'm not after lots of power.
My mate has just had his M45 setup mapped on his MX5. It was 133 at the wheels with a standard 1.8 VVT engine, now its 160 at the wheels with 0.25 bar (dodgy bypass valve limiting boost to 0.25 bar).
Ah cool, I know he was converting to EC1, so I'm not sure why? I'm already running an ec1 so can't say how well it would be running.
I know mine doesn't start seeing positive pressure until 2500, but then it builds steadily.
I think you will find the eaton charger dies on its arse at high rpm on a 172 engine TBH
Here's mine.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/...67E9DD2-1418-000002118510BC0F_zps20d256a3.mp4
Got no idea how to embed.
http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/...67E9DD2-1418-000002118510BC0F_zps20d256a3.mp4
Got no idea how to embed.
It should manage ok at 7000 pushing 400CFM. But no more really. As for power output I'm not certain.
At that level 10PSI is possible with a 15% reduction pulley. It would basically put the charger at its 'happy' limits, the Mini guys push them a bit further.
My only concern would be whether then engine would cope with the with a stock headgasket and CR (although the dynamic CR will be reduced slightly with having the Pipers fitted)
Even if you gear it for 400cfm the boost will still not be as high as 10psi at 7k rpm I suspect with the pipers, the engine is just not going to be restricted enough to create that much boost, don't forget its 25 percent bigger than a mini one and not to mention has quite good VE at high rpm
Yeah its the capicity difference that will make the biggest impact.
Bottom line is that 10psi on a clio at 7K rpm should be 260bhp+, and I doubt that charger is going to manage to flow that much air.
Still going to be a LOT better than a standard car though
I'd love to put an M45 that I have lieing about on the mrs daily 182 but no way would she let me lose the aircon to do it, lol.
I'd be happy if it was around the 220bhp mark tbh. A bit more than I'd get if I go with ITBs but more torque (I'd hope it was around the 195/200lb/ft mark).
Most importantly though its much, much cheaper. Especially if it'll run quite happily on the standard ECU which is something I need to check with Paul at RS Tuning.
If the standard ECU is capable (they can run a Rotrex so why not an Eaton) then I reckon I could do it for £1k all in. That's with Meg 225 injectors, intercooler, boost pipes, M45, material for making brackets and a remap. Whereas you're talking £2600 for ITBs, ECU and mapping and any other bits required.
Not sure how I'd have the charger. Draw through or blow through. If it's blow through then the standard inlet system can stay and just get a 2nd TB before the supercharger. Draw through then I'd probably get a new inlet manifold made up to incorporate the charger. Could even integrate a chargercooler system then as IIRC runner lengths don't affect Roots type chargers.
The downside is putting 20kg of weight back into the car in front of the wheels.
Most importantly though its much, much cheaper. Especially if it'll run quite happily on the standard ECU which is something I need to check with Paul at RS Tuning.
If the standard ECU is capable (they can run a Rotrex so why not an Eaton) then I reckon I could do it for £1k all in. That's with Meg 225 injectors, intercooler, boost pipes, M45, material for making brackets and a remap. Whereas you're talking £2600 for ITBs, ECU and mapping and any other bits required.
Not sure how I'd have the charger. Draw through or blow through. If it's blow through then the standard inlet system can stay and just get a 2nd TB before the supercharger. Draw through then I'd probably get a new inlet manifold made up to incorporate the charger. Could even integrate a chargercooler system then as IIRC runner lengths don't affect Roots type chargers.
The downside is putting 20kg of weight back into the car in front of the wheels.
Seems a weird expression to use draw through on a car with injection TBH, lol.
Personally I would run with an intercooler even though the boost is low, there is no downside to it really.
Not sure I would bother with a second TB, probably just use a blow off valve and accept that it sounds a bit whooshy as you are coming to a stop.
Personally I would run with an intercooler even though the boost is low, there is no downside to it really.
Not sure I would bother with a second TB, probably just use a blow off valve and accept that it sounds a bit whooshy as you are coming to a stop.
Are the Powerworks and some of the JR kits not draw through? The injectors would remain next to the head but it would have the TB before the charger.
With the charger needing to spin around 15,500 it'll most definitely need cooling!
A bov is a simpler option, something like a uprated Bosch recirculating valve would be quieter. I've heard of issues with revs not dropping as quickly when running a bov. Running a 2nd TB fixes that, plus it would make the throttle a bit stiffer and close quicker which IMO would feel better too. It depends how simple it is to do another cable from the throttle bracket.
With the charger needing to spin around 15,500 it'll most definitely need cooling!
A bov is a simpler option, something like a uprated Bosch recirculating valve would be quieter. I've heard of issues with revs not dropping as quickly when running a bov. Running a 2nd TB fixes that, plus it would make the throttle a bit stiffer and close quicker which IMO would feel better too. It depends how simple it is to do another cable from the throttle bracket.
I'm not running any form of BOV.
To me draw through in the context of a charger means its after the carb, so it draws fuel through the charger, but I guess the same could be said of a throttle body even though the injectors are still after the charger so no fuel is drawn through, im probably just showing my age.
