Mixing tyres

[gralegav]

Hi,
Not another of those 'which tyres' threads, but a fairly specific query,seeking advice from someone who has tried this, or is technical enough with tyres.

I've had a 182 FF for all of 3 days now. It had good PS3's on the rear, but needs new fronts. I really only plan to use the car as a fun car, for backroad blasts and some trackdays, so was thinking of putting AD08s on the front.

Is this a terrible idea, with the PS3s on the rear? I don't really want to do all 4, as it needs a belt change and a steering wheel refurb too. The way I see it, the fronts are working so much harder, the extra grip up front will be no bad thing? Please tell me if I'm mad though!

 

[Adam G]

I'd put the AD08s on the back and wear the fronts out to replace in the near future.

 

[Luke 172]

Second that, best / new tyres should be placed on the rear as an industry standard.
AD08R's are amazing on the Clio.

 

[AdDaMan]

Id do the opposite.

 

[mikekean]

Depends on how hard you drive it really, on my EP3 hill climb car i was running Kumho V70a in super soft up front with R888 on the rear. It was fine until your really pushed it, when on the limit the back would let go quite violently without warning (on power). That is coupling a full race tyre up front with track tyre in the rear though, i have run better tyres up front on many cars and never had an issue (on the road).

Road tyres have quite linear grip from cold to hot, it doesn't increase that dramatically with temperature. Race/track tyres are a different game, cold vs hot grip can be dramatically different. Therefore id probably put the AD08 in the rear, if it was another make of road tyre i would have no qualms putting them on the front.

 

[DrR]

Best tyres always on the back.

 

[McGherkin]

Ondaback.

I might put my new tyres on the front but that's to a) make the car oversteer more and b) because I still need to be able to lock the wheels up with the handbrake.

 

[coverman]

I might put my new tyres on the front but that's to a) make the car oversteer more and b) because I still need to be able to lock the wheels up with the handbrake.

The classic Autosolo setup

 

[AdDaMan]

I have semi slicks on the front of my car and road tyres on the rear.
All depends on how you like the balance.

 

[MarkX]

I'd go ahead, on track I've had the same federals on for two years and regularly put new 888s on the front, no complaints, I'd always put the best tyres on the front.

 

[coverman]

I prefer the balance to to the right side of the emergency room

 

[dann2707]

I'd go ahead, on track I've had the same federals on for two years and regularly put new 888s on the front, no complaints, I'd always put the best tyres on the front.

Same, I much prefer oversteer to understeer when pressing on. Nothing scarier than NOT going around a corner. At least with oversteer its easier to overcome ime.

 

[Knuckles]

I had ns2rs on the front and conti3s on the rear last time I did oulton.

The ns2rs had more grip than the contis but it only misbehaved once tbh.

I'm sure on the road you'll have no problem. If you do, dab of oppo and a boot full of throttle should see you reet

 

[JB21]

Just buy some PS3s for the front, no need to purchase track orientated tyres for mostly road use. Just get a set of cheap 15" for track tyres.

I've just got 4 x 195 50 15 r888s with 4mm of tread for £120 of ebay to go on my 15s, loads of bargains out there.

 

[AlanWak]

I might put my new tyres on the front but that's to a) make the car oversteer more and b) because I still need to be able to lock the wheels up with the handbrake.

The classic Autosolo setup

Maybe for Autotests, but NEVER for an MSA compliant Autosolo (turns over 90 degrees minimum of 5m radius). Autosolos are all about grip, sliding is slow.

 

[coverman]

There have unfortunately been loads of MSA Autosolos where some turns were really tight, so tight in fact that many cars were unable to get round on first attempt. I agree that this is undesirable and that flowing tests should be the order of the day but lack of space and organisers who are used to putting on Autotests have made it so.For an fwd car front end grip and a loose tail are the way if tight tracks prevail

 

[AlanWak]

If the test doesn't comply with the requirements of the Blue Book then the event isn't an Autosolo, period. If the event only has an Autosolo permit and it doesn't comply then there's no insurance cover.

It's not a question of being "undesirable" it's contra to the Regulations and the implications can be severe. I kicked off "proceedings" against a Wolverhampton CC "Autosolo" as it didn't comply, despite telling the CoC the week before, on the day (so he changed the course) but it still didn't comply as there were turns of more than 90 degrees around a single cone. It's very simple for organisers, just read the Blue Book, there's a simple chart outlining the differences between Autotests, PCA and Autosolos. Many Clubs use the term Autosolo and Autotest interchangeably to mean the same thing, but they're different types of event.

I've had to point this out to a few organisers over the years and the course is normally changed, especially when they realise the insurance and championship connotations.

I've heard the excuse that "Members want this sort of test". Fine, get an Autotest permit, not an Autosolo permit. Both disciplines are based on the same core Autotest regs (to keep Autosolos away from the Speed Committee in the MSA and the resultant safety equipment requirements). But they are different disciplines for many different reasons.

I've set my 172 up for grip as it's focussed on Autosolos and Sprints. If I need to handbrake then I'l use my Rover rally car or Micra autotest car. But if I enter an Autosolo as part of an Autosolo Championship then I expect the event to be an Autosolo, not something else.

If you see an Autotest masquerading as an Autosolo then tell the organisers as there could be implications for everyone. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a "tight" event is a one off event, just call it what it is, an Autotest or PCA with passengers. But it DOES matter if it's a round of a championship as competitors have committed time and budget in complying with the rules, to find that their car is inappropriate and not competitive for a non-complying event. REALLY grinds my gears.

Currently leading the Welsh Autosolo Championship and ASWMC Autosolo Championship (won it for the last two years). Only third in the BTRDA Autosolo Championship and second in the CMSG Autosolo Championship. Fastest on the wet tests at Donington Park last weekend.

 

[coverman]

The unfortunate reality is that ,in the north at least, tight so-called Autosolos prevail, and they use the same layout to run a simaltaneous PCA. I think a complaint would result in the complainer being excluded, and further entires with that organizer being declined. I have complained that serious hazards, eg lamposts, kerbs, parked vehicles such as lorries, are too close to the path of competitors, only to be told ,drive to the conditions.

 

[AlanWak]

We're taking over this thread!

That's not good. I've only encountered cars and lorries when they were inadvertantly left at a venue. At least the organisers directed us away from such hazards. I guess it's really down to the availability of venues. But why call an event an Autosolo when it doesn't comply? Autosolos are a low cost entry level sport and every effort should be made not to damage vehicles. You shouldn't need a hydraulic handbrake to be competitive.

The Blue Book exists to ensure a certain standard is maintained and that events are safe for all. If an event doesn't follow the Blue Book then you are within your rights to raise the issue and can pursue with the MSA. As soon as you mention the MSA then organisers normally comply. Do they really want to get in trouble and invalidate event insurance?

Which specific Northern Clubs are running such non-compliant events? Talking to the likes of Duncan Wild and Steve Johnson who run Northern events (for me anyway) and who are members of the MSA Autotest Committee, there is an impression that events in the South are approaching sprints. However all the Southern events still comply with the Blue Book. We might just have better venues available down here - Kemble, Barton Stacey, Abingdon, Finmere, ... All open airfields in different forms of use.

Loughborough CC are relatively local to you and regularly use the tarmac lake at Donington Park and Rockingham. Richard Egger (who founded REIS) is a major driver at Loughborough. The Knutsford event can be quite tight in the Demon Tweeks car park, but should hopefully have a bit more space going forward.

If i haven't done an event before, I normally look at previous event videos on Youtube, then ask the organiser questions. However most BTRDA events are now of a good standard. The only ones I haven't done are the Ilkley event, which was apparently a bit tight, and Steve Johnson's CSMA NW events.

If you have concerns about an event, have a chat with somebody on the Autotest Committee. They're all very friendly and want Autosolos to flourish. They want to make sure that their rules are being followed. Apparently a "chat" was had with the organiser of the Wolverhampton event which didn't comply and that event will comply going forward.