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Newbie flame-ball thread - Lowering = poo



M

Munson



OK guys I just feel compelled to voice my opinion about the seemingly obessive desire to lower your clios.

(Disclaimer - this is just my opnion and I dont wish to start an argument. Im just inviting discussion on this subject and not passing judgement) read on...

I like many of the lowered Clios I see on here, in particular the standard 1.2s and what not, that look a lot sportier sitting a lot lower and on bigger wheels.

However...very often I see pictures of sweet looking 172/182/Cup machines followed by "itd look better lower"...often followed by a photoshop of the car scraping the tarmac, followed by loads of aprreciative "woah look loads more awesome" style comments...I just dont get the attraction personally.

Ignoring ride and handling (I realise the lower CG improves stability), the cars just look lowered - IMHO they dont look better at all, they just look modified by teenagers. Sorry if anyone takes offence at this, the vast majority of lowered Clios here do look fantastic, but I cant help thinking theyd look better standard.

That said, this is a Clio enthusiast site, so its obviously expected that lots of us are gonna mod our machines. Its just that personally, I think lowering an already sporty looking 172/182 just slightly chavves it up and cheapens it a bit. Maybe Im just getting old!

I guess Im basically just bored - waiting for the last of the turkey to knock on the back door. Discuss :D
 
M

mr sheep

  Clio 1.6 16v 2003


have u ever seen a standard clio on 17s? tractor comes to mind.

as for the sport i think they look beter just lowered a little bit say 25 mm
 
M

Munson



Quote: Originally posted by Final_Maxim on 27 December 2004
im havin 17s so i cant have it standard height.. thus a 60 mil drop!FM


But the car will be max of 12.7mm higher on 17s, even using the same profile rubber, so why 60mm?
 
M

Munson



Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 27 December 2004
change from 15" to 17" is only 12.7mm higher? u sure?


Ah ok sorry, I was thinking 16 to 17
 
J

Jonesy

  Audi S3 225


A real sporty clio should be lowered imo, especially if the car is used for track use. Look at the clio cup racers their cups are slammed to the ground.

It doesnt look atall chavvy, as you say, it looks 100% better than standard.

Peace
 
E

edde



Quote: Originally posted by Roy Munson on 27 December 2004

However...very often I see pictures of sweet looking 172/182/Cup machines followed by "itd look better lower"...often followed by a photoshop of the car scraping the tarmac, followed by loads of aprreciative "woah look loads more awesome" style comments...I just dont get the attraction personally.

Ignoring ride and handling (I realise the lower CG improves stability), the cars just look lowered - IMHO they dont look better at all, they just look modified by teenagers. Sorry if anyone takes offence at this, the vast majority of lowered Clios here do look fantastic, but I cant help thinking theyd look better standard.

That said, this is a Clio enthusiast site, so its obviously expected that lots of us are gonna mod our machines. Its just that personally, I think lowering an already sporty looking 172/182 just slightly chavves it up and cheapens it a bit. Maybe Im just getting old!
Click to expand...
I can see where your comming from.

I think the cup racers show what a true racing cup car should look like ie very low and people in there attempts to make there cars like Cup racer and to follow the normal obseration that lower = better low want there cars lower.

Lowering has the effect that weight transfere (at the same speed) is less so you can go round bends faster, plus the roll on the car is reduced so then again it looks like a racer and weight transfere is reduced so you can corner quicker.

I think it boils down to two points

1) People want there cars to be like racer ie very very low so lower is better.

2) After seeing the effect a lower suspenion car has then since low is good very low must be very good. Hence we say it looks sweet etc we realy mean it looks more racer like but that doesnt sound very street does it?

Personally Im not bothered about how low my car is it has its advantages and its disadvantages. If I could have the handling/ potency of my RSX kit with stock ride height Id do that. I want to go lower for the performance potenial increase not for the looks.
 
TomS

TomS

  Vee dub


Interesting point this...

I have a standard 16v and love the original ride height of it sat on the standard wheels. I have no desire what so ever to lower mine (as i feel there is NO need!)

I really like the looks of the 172/182 etc standard and personally wouldnt mod one. Having said that, the pics of them lowered subtly on the standard wheels look great. Interesting point, im not a fan of big wheels, but with such a vast amount of opinions and styles, its great seeing what everyone ha s done/likes on their cars.

Cheers

Tom
 
M

Munson



Quote: Originally posted by Jonesy on 27 December 2004A real sporty clio should be lowered imo, especially if the car is used for track use.  Look at the clio cup racers their cups are slammed to the ground.It doesnt look atall chavvy, as you say, it looks 100% better than standard.Peace


I agree for track use, but I canr help feeling it serves little or no purpose for realistic road use.
 
Ian_182

Ian_182

  FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf


lowering is not always a good idea.For track use ,yes it helps as your flat out and can generate more G through a corner but on the road your car (lowered) can become skitish on un-even surfaces.My old fiesta used to be lowered on standard shocks and this seamed to be ok.......On a car like the 182 they have put so much effort into getting it right that you could end up wrecking the set up.....On an older car this can be a compliment in the long run to help bring the car up to date with a set of shocks and springs.

Personally i like to see a subtle looking car with tasteful lowering...When the wheels start to go into the arches and all that its just silly IMHO and in no way can it be an advantage to the car.You have to do 15 point turns because everything catches the inside liner and you put 1 chubby mate in the back and it rips your arches to sh*t on any slight bump

Each to there own though,ian
 
B

benhwolves

  RB182cup&golf gti


i totally agree with Roy Munson, but then im knocking 30. Been there done it and wouldnt dream of doing again. Ive got the 182 cup and the car is spot on as it is (IMO of course). Everyone different tho otherwise wed all be driving round in the same motors!! modding is up to the individual, just not me!! The only mod ive got is a cliosport sticker on the back - proper chav now haha!
 
M

Munson



Quote: Originally posted by hoe261 on 27 December 2004
i totally agree with Roy Munson, but then im knocking 30. Been there done it and wouldnt dream of doing again. Ive got the 182 cup and the car is spot on as it is (IMO of course). Everyone different tho otherwise wed all be driving round in the same motors!! modding is up to the individual, just not me!! The only mod ive got is a cliosport sticker on the back - proper chav now haha!


Hehehe Im 32 in 4 weeks, so perhaps it is an age thing. Also exepecting delivery of my 182Cup on the 20th and wouldnt dream of messing with the balance of the car. Each to their own though. Ive not seen any members cars on here that I think look bad.
 
F

Final Maxim

  Punto/Clio GTT


Quote: Originally posted by Roy Munson on 27 December 2004


Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 27 December 2004

change from 15" to 17" is only 12.7mm higher? u sure?
Click to expand...


Ah ok sorry, I was thinking 16 to 17




and theyre 14" on there atm lol

why drop 60 mil? i dunno, i believe itll look the dogs danglies, practicality, rear passengers and handling all go out the window. but i rather have a car that looks good than goes fast.

FM
Click to expand...
 
M

Munson



Well in theory, on the same profile rubber (proportionally) your machine would be sitting 40.1mm (geek) higher on 17s, so a further 20mm drop would probably look pretty classy actually :)
 
TomS

TomS

  Vee dub


Darth oli - Your clio does look ALOT better now it has been lowered! I dont think there is any question of that!

Cheers

Tom
 
T

Toypop

  Yaris Hybrid


If you want your car to look like the touring car you should be running it on 15s for a start.

Renault no doubt spend a lot of time tuning the suspension set up of the Renault Sport models using professional test drivers. Quite how Joe Nobody thinks he can improve on that is beyond me!

Lower and stiffer doesnt equal more grip and whilst the Touring car is lower and stiffer I wonder how it would fair on a bumpy roundabout. Perhaps it would end up on its roof like a number of members cars....
 
M.C..

M.C..

ClioSport Club Member


if bigger wheels go on the car then lowering is a good thing for the looks, but if i lowered my 182 i would not be able to get up my drive without scraping the front splitter and its on std wheels.

i have seen some cars that have been lowered and when they are going down the road they are bouncing (normally novas) this is not improving the handling and IMO they look stupid
 
Remedi

Remedi

  A silver Honda


Cheers Tom.

Fair enough Roy. But even if had a 172/182/Willy id still lower it, only 35mm though.

My 1.4 is lowered 55mm and it handled like a go kart on the 14s.


[Edited by Darth Oli on 12/27/2004 8:06:40 PM]
 
Dan##

Dan##



how does lowering "chavve" it up? it improves the car ffs, neons, stickers and all that other crap wont improve a cars speed through the corners!!

oh, can someone show Fred this thread! lol
 
M

Munson

stu8v

stu8v



Std ride is best IMHO, most of the lowered cars will be running on there bumpstops therefore hindering the ride and handling.

Yes there are exeptions but if you hit the slightest bump when cornering there will be no compliance in the suspension resulting in a "oh sh1t", with a bit of movement its doubtful you would notice the bump.

I go for function over looks. Heres a pic of my 205 with full Bilstein tarmac suspension but std ride height.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/stu8v/DSC00080.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/stu8v/DSC00080.jpg
 
E

entjm

  Clio 1.4, SV650S


In my opinion the average man on the street (ie. not a renault sport enthusiast, & forum user) wouldnt know that cupcake and mike172sports cars are lowered at all! If (and i suspect they have) theyve spend a lot of money on dampers and springs for performance, and the car gets a sportier stance because of it then fair enough!

therefore how can it look bad, (if people dont know its different from standard)

its not excessive and in keeping with subtle changes to the rest of the car... bang on IMO.
 
Mike@Rentech

Mike@Rentech

  Volvo S60 T5


In my opinion the average man on the street (ie. not a renault sport enthusiast, & forum user) wouldnt know that cupcake and mike172sports cars are lowered at all!
___________________________________________________________

I was hoping he would say it was done by a teenager, as Im 31 in a few days time and feeling old at the mo!

LOL:p

Its great on the track, love it and also much better on the twistys than it used to be standard only dropped 40mm, so nothing to much.
 
TomS

TomS

  Vee dub


Mike172sport - i think that looks great, very subtle and looks a nice height.

The driver in the pic doesnt look a day over 21! lol

Cheers

Tom
 
TomS

TomS

  Vee dub


182blue - doesnt look lowered to me.

That car blings by the way! lol what a colour!

Tom


[Edited by TomS on 27 December 2004 at 9:00pm]
 
T

Turkish



lowering does not Chav up a car what a rediculous statement. As for lowering the car will not improve the handling statement, this is half right lowering a car will not garantee it handles better as there are too many factors involved in "good or better" handling. My 172 was running coilovers and there was a drastic improvement in the handling of the car, my 182 WILL be running coilovers as soon as the kit is available.
Yes manufacturers spend a considerable amount of time and money with setting up a cars suspension and handling BUT they have to take into consideration things like ride comfort (although a sporting model some people would not be committed to put up with a firmer ride whereas we as enthusiasts may prefer or at least on poor roads tolerate it) also ground clearance, a manufacturer cant say what kind of roads or use the car in question might come up against, we have bought the car knowing what the local roads are like and any obsticles we may come across so can choose a ride height accordingly. Yes you can get cheap and nasty lowering springs with a horrible spring rate that shake your teeth out and dont do anthing to improve the car other than making its asthetics more pleasing to the owner. I bought a set of high quality coilovers made by a german TUV approved comapny that are renowned for their road and race suspension, anyone who was in the car while they were fitted with say the drive speaks for itself.
 
Liam

Liam

  Ford Fiesta


the 182s with cup packs are lowered 3mm, in the real world a cup 182 and a normal 182 I doubt you will be able to see a difference?
 
M

Munson



With hindsight, I think I should have left out the 172, as it appears from some of your snaps, that it does have some rather spacious arch gaps. The lowered 172s Ive seen so far do look pretty tasty dropped :)
 
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