non-vvt factory Clios RS? WTF

[Baal]

Well, i am from Mexico, i own 2 clios (2004, 172), since i joined this forum i felt very weird when people talked about how the Clios "woke up" at 5,000 rpm, while both my Clios kind of die at those RPMs.

Ive also all the clios of my friend feel the same way, right now im talking with my mechanic who has opened engines of Clios and made multiple cambelt changes (two on my clios alone) claims that there is no VVT in my clios or any clio he has seen, so what in the f**k.

I asked him if the cams were hollow, he said that no, they were solid, and that there were no selenoid or anything that indicated VVT on the pulleys.


So im starting to suspect maybe Clios in Mexico dont have VVT, and god knows what hybrid engine we have in our cars, so im making a simple request, do any of you have pictures to identify VVT? pictures of the hollow cams, or pics of the service manual something?

PS: i know the VVT wasnt designed for power, however if the car is "stuck" on the "google idle" position, the engine will definitely not be as powerful as it should be

 

[Baal]

Oh and it does have the big pulley, but im not 100% sure its functional.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'm just about to do a cambelt change, i will take pictures

 

[maupineda]

Well, i am from Mexico, i own 2 clios (2004, 172), since i joined this forum i felt very weird when people talked about how the Clios "woke up" at 5,000 rpm, while both my Clios kind of die at those RPMs.

Ive also all the clios of my friend feel the same way, right now im talking with my mechanic who has opened engines of Clios and made multiple cambelt changes (two on my clios alone) claims that there is no VVT in my clios or any clio he has seen, so what in the f**k.

I asked him if the cams were hollow, he said that no, they were solid, and that there were no selenoid or anything that indicated VVT on the pulleys.


So im starting to suspect maybe Clios in Mexico dont have VVT, and god knows what hybrid engine we have in our cars, so im making a simple request, do any of you have pictures to identify VVT? pictures of the hollow cams, or pics of the service manual something?

PS: i know the VVT wasnt designed for power, however if the car is "stuck" on the "google idle" position, the engine will definitely not be as powerful as it should be

Baal, no idea where in Mexico you are from, I am from Mexico city, and ALL RS Clio 172/182's are VVT'd, unless yours are not true sport models. Check next to the oil filler cap, you will see an actuator, which is a solenoide to change admission's cam position, or VVT, which only works on the admission cam by the way. If your car strugle to pass over 5,000 it may be your solenoid not engaging and the car will stop pulling. As you've heard, the power mark is at 5,300 and definitly can be felt. So you can indeed have a problem with the VVT solenoid

I wouldn't trust a mechanic that can't even see where the VVT is, specially if he claims to be knowledgable of RS Clios and say NONE he's seen has VVT, so he hasn't trully see one at all.

Join clioclub in Mexico if you are not there (www.clioclub.com.mx)

 

[f0xy]

VVT is only engaged under 2k. Its for low down drivability.

It has nothing to do with the 5k 'kick'. Thats just the design of the engine/cams.

 

[Mike_182]

Fuelling, apparently. After 5k ish the Euro emissions regs don't matter a toss so they can start the bilge pump.

Hence why a remap can do so much.

 

[f0xy]

Dont know then. When I fitted the schricks to mine, and it was still on a 172 standard map, the 5k 'kick' has completely disappeared...if it was fuel, surely it would still be there?

 

[Mike_182]

Don't know. Apparently they run incredibly lean up to that point then because regs allow them to they go to town afterwards.

I guess the 'true' answer depends on the product someone's flogging to you at the time, although realistically it's a combination of all of the above.

 

[kevin.s]

this is the vvt pulley mate

 

[Mike_182]

Looks like a red cross to me!

 

[kevin.s]

for some reason it dont want to work :S

 

[bmh.01]

I can see it here just fine, you can see the dephaser on the inlet cam in all its glory here.

http://gallery.getflat.co.uk/v/My_C...ambelt/DSC00242.JPG.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=2

 

[kristian]

Fuelling, apparently. After 5k ish the Euro emissions regs don't matter a toss so they can start the bilge pump.

Hence why a remap can do so much.

i was told the same thing, can anyone say for sure if the map restricts fuel below 5k? fred?

 

[Tucker]

No, the standard map would not run lean.

Wtf quite frankly.

The intention is to make the engine it's most efficient, so your a/f ratio is as close to perfect as possible standard.

 

[Fastchip]

i was told the same thing, can anyone say for sure if the map restricts fuel below 5k? fred?

Yes, except for remapped ones and people living in Mexico (due to high altitude).

 

[Mike_182]

No, the standard map would not run lean.

Wtf quite frankly.

The intention is to make the engine it's most efficient, so your a/f ratio is as close to perfect as possible standard.

I didn't say it ran lean, I said it ran as lean as possible for emissions regulations. More fuel = more power in this area. As far as top end goes, yes, it's near on perfect for performance, but fuelling is magic and there's various 'perfects' depending on how you look at it.

 

[Ralphizzle]

Hey Baal,

This can't be happening... you missing out all the RS fun!
No andalé, andalé? LOL

But serious what maupineda says.
Your mechanic knows jack!!!

Saludos,

 

[Baal]

Baal, no idea where in Mexico you are from, I am from Mexico city, and ALL RS Clio 172/182's are VVT'd, unless yours are not true sport models. Check next to the oil filler cap, you will see an actuator, which is a solenoide to change admission's cam position, or VVT, which only works on the admission cam by the way. If your car strugle to pass over 5,000 it may be your solenoid not engaging and the car will stop pulling. As you've heard, the power mark is at 5,300 and definitly can be felt. So you can indeed have a problem with the VVT solenoid

I wouldn't trust a mechanic that can't even see where the VVT is, specially if he claims to be knowledgable of RS Clios and say NONE he's seen has VVT, so he hasn't trully see one at all.

Join clioclub in Mexico if you are not there (www.clioclub.com.mx)

Yup i went to day to see an broken clio engine that is in the shop, (the mechanic that told me this is a close friend, not the one who actually does s**t to my Clios).

And yeah the pulley does contain oil duh, i should habe put a bet on it, but he sounded sooo sure about it.

However i insist that neither of them has a 5krpm "pull" it actually feels like the power goes flat there on my 2 clios.

Actually a few days ago i graphed with a GTech RR my power and the power drops at 5krpm so im starting to believe the VVT actuator is not working.


Oh and the VVT being for low revs and not related to the 5krpm pull, i know this, i know its not a VTEC however, if lets say the VVT never makes the switch and its suck on the "low rev" setting, couldnt this timing be killing my top end power?

 

[Baal]

So is there a way to test this? shouldnt it throw a lot of codes if its not working?

 

[Mike_182]

The VVT DOES NOTHING at 5,000rpm. The VVT operates at <2,000rpm to save the lumpy idle only.

If it's not working the the power would be off the mark on the whole range. By a long way.

 

[fUbAr]

Its highly possibly your cars don't have the standard ECU map, which would explain the loss of the 5k kick. You're better off anyway, I would much rather have smooth power delivery right across the rev range... this whole 5k kick thing is over rated.

 

[Baal]

Its highly possibly your cars don't have the standard ECU map, which would explain the loss of the 5k kick. You're better off anyway, I would much rather have smooth power delivery right across the rev range... this whole 5k kick thing is over rated.

the rally one doesnt, the street one does, but it has no cat.

i made a "dyno-run" on my g-tech and it seems the power totally get flat from 5krpm to 7k, it even drops but the cable to download it to the PC is not working and im still unfamiliar with the g-tech so im going to fix this and updat this thread with the graph.

cuz if it dies at 5krpm theres def something wrong.