One more thread on 172´s Throttle Bodies

[Eros]

I read a few threads on throttle bodies for the 172 and there is one thing unclear to me. They all talk about bhp figures above 200. I wonder if they get to those figures with just the throttle body exhaust and a remap or if they also get a new cam to get to those figures...
And one other thing. Since I have a 2003 clio sport I have the lazy electronic throttle. I hate that thing.
How hard is to get rid of it?
Are there computers involved?
It´s hooked to the ESP or something?

 

[16v_jon]

If you are in the UK then Nick hill of Hill power is able to convert the throttle to cable.
You will loose the ESP as the ESP used the throttle to cut power when its in use.
200+ is possible using a single body although you will need cams and a remap obviously due to the new cam duration the head will need to be worked to take advantage of the new lift.
possibilities are endless its just not many people can justify spending up to 50% of their cars value on a tuning package that will only gain them 10-20% increase in power.

i have cams, decat, remap, viper, exuast, manifold matched and slight headwork never rolling roaded but i guess it may be close to 190 at the fly

 

[Fred@BTM]

^or

save mucking about, bin the FBW and get TB's

 

[matty w]

save mucking about fit throttle bodies and cut your front panel out and have bonnet pins

 

[Fred@BTM]

it can be done without bonnet pins

 

[cK]

Remove your bonnet

 

[Fred@BTM]

comedian!

 

[matty w]

and still use the same length trumpets?

 

[cK]

I read a few threads on throttle bodies for the 172 and there is one thing unclear to me. They all talk about bhp figures above 200. I wonder if they get to those figures with just the throttle body exhaust and a remap or if they also get a new cam to get to those figures...
And one other thing. Since I have a 2003 clio sport I have the lazy electronic throttle. I hate that thing.
How hard is to get rid of it?
Are there computers involved?
It´s hooked to the ESP or something?

Throttle bodies and exhaust will get you between 210-215 at a push on a standard car. With cams you will be looking around the 220 mark.

Individual larger throttle body, cams, exhaust etc will see around 200-205 most likely.

With either route you take your fly by wire cable crap out and a piece of string is put in its place.

 

[matty w]

even cams wont garentee 200bhp i now rolling roads arnt 100% but there was a 182 at that rolling road day at telford with cams etc that only made 150 odd atw

 

[cK]

even cams wont garentee 200bhp i now rolling roads arnt 100% but there was a 182 at that rolling road day at telford with cams etc that only made 150 odd atw

I dont think that had a cam package, did it? It made around 189bhp at fly iirc

 

[christurbo]

Fly readings are not worth sh1t - either a RR's TBH.

You can only RR an engine truly with it actually out of the car in a controlled environment.

Or do what Jesus does and 'test' it

 

[cK]

Test it?

 

[edde]

even cams wont garentee 200bhp i now rolling roads arnt 100% but there was a 182 at that rolling road day at telford with cams etc that only made 150 odd atw

14 or so is stock oin a 172.

150 ATW is more likly 175 at the fly was it even remapped as there loads of cams out there some better than others and getting it maped make a hug difference.

 

[christurbo]

Test it?

He as hosted some good vids that I have seen. Maybe he should take it to the pod etc???

RR figures vary widely and are only true when you have done a mod in the same day and Dene a RR before and after.

Saying that when I had my VX on the rollers when it was std on the rollers it made std figures [ A new Dyno Dynamics featured on Vroom Vroom].

 

[John D]

Saying that when I had my VX on the rollers when it was std on the rollers it made std figures.

Must have been out then

 

[cK]

Test it?

He as hosted some good vids that I have seen. Maybe he should take it to the pod etc???

RR figures vary widely and are only true when you have done a mod in the same day and Dene a RR before and after.

It's my old car, it ran a 14.3 at FCS last year which isn't great. 5.7 0-60. Unsure what it will run now. Temps were quite high that day. It struggled on track.

To be honest if you have a fair bit of dosh, get throttle bodies, they are good. I personally wouldn't do it again, a lot of money and at the end of the day you always want more power.

Throttle bodies can be done cheaper than these tuning companies charge though.

 

[matty w]

it did have cams it had the £1800 cam conversion from gdi,i know rolliing roads are not always accurate but everyone else's figures where about rite

 

[ja.jack]

That's the most unwittingly profound thing Ive seen said on here,
''Throttle bodies are good but I'wouldnt get them again''

Thirty years of tuning and barrow loads of cash expended I'd say' 'don't do it'. Chris K , would I be right in saying that for months you were mentally slavering over the prospect of the neck snapping acceleration the bodies would bring? Sadly,the reality was different, much reduced driveability and horrific juice consumption,with hardly a discernable increase in power.

If only we could all be movie stars/ rich/ Fred/ whatever. In that scenario I bet we would'nt be driving glorified shopping trollys.

 

[cK]

That's the most unwittingly profound thing Ive seen said on here,
''Throttle bodies are good but I'wouldnt get them again''

Thirty years of tuning and barrow loads of cash expended I'd say' 'don't do it'. Chris K , would I be right in saying that for months you were mentally slavering over the prospect of the neck snapping acceleration the bodies would bring? Sadly,the reality was different, much reduced driveability and horrific juice consumption,with hardly a discernable increase in power.

If only we could all be movie stars/ rich/ Fred/ whatever. In that scenario I bet we would'nt be driving glorified shopping trollys.

lol nice post.

Well some parts are correct some are not.

Driveability was not an issue, the car did not judder and driving was as good as my clio completely standard. However the fuel consumption was not good, so it can be argued that the car did not drive as good as standard. At some points I was getting around 8mpg. This was purely down to mapping which I beleive is now resolved.

The main concern is gains as you say. These engines are s**t for tuning. Now I understand this I won't be wasting my money on it. I'd rather spend my money on other things.

Handling and brakes is where I now draw the line, i've contemplated getting throttle bodies, cams etc etc again but I would be dissapointed. My wallet would be empty, there may be a smile on my face for a few days but it will soon be back to wanting more power. The gains I would get from them are not that great anyway.

Look at jon (TheJesus) who now has my old 172 with bodies. He had a race with a cup that had spent maybe £1.5k on mods maximum. Considering the amount of money that had been spent on mine (£6-7k so far), I know which car i'd rather have. The cup with £5k spare cash.

I will stop rambling.

 

[ja.jack]

Chris K.

What was the speed sensation with bodies? Did you get a violent thrust in the chest sensation when giving it laldy from standing start?

Am not trying to be provocative. I'm old enough and stupid enough to actually want to get them. A sensible guy like yourself could quell any mad ideas I have and also save young guys getting into dept.

I always find myself getting broody when the R1 is laid up for winter.

 

[Eros]

That is true. Spending a lot of money, little power gains but some how we still getting clios and we still want to make our clio run faster than the others ...

They say that: "You can't make a race horse out of a mule but you can spend a lot of money trying!"

 

[ja.jack]

Keep rambling Chris!

Is the Jesus car no faster than the cup with minimum mods?

 

[BenR]

The main concern is gains as you say. These engines are s**t for tuning. Now I understand this I won't be wasting my money on it. I'd rather spend my money on other things.

i hate sweeping statements like this.

Its not that the engines are s**t for tuning, you get more out of these engines than you do from comparable mods out of say a c20XE (vauxhall red top), or duratec, or zetec.

I think the main problem is that with the advancement in OE output leves, general public expectations have shifted with it by the same amount. A 2ltr engine with a set valve area has its limitations and when you start closer to the limit, you have less to gain.

Throttle bodies on a redtop 190-200, on an F4R 210bhp with alot more torque due to the larger stroke.

 

[christurbo]

A good example of The Jesus' ITB's in a real life scenario.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHiMhZpYrA


Im happy with tuning the overall package of the 172 without having to spend alot of money and time on the engine to gain named gains.

I agree with Ben - the manufacturer has already spent alot of time getting the 2.0 lump at quite a high output already so further gains will come at a cost.

It all comes down to you.

Do you want the easy way out?:- sell up and buy a faster more focused tool.................Or do what I did - go from a faster more focused tool to spend some money on a shopping trolley for one purpose:- to make other people with a more 'focused tool' to think 'bloody hell was that the same car that my mother has that just passed me on the track???'!!!!

 

[BenR]

i dont understand the mentality of people expecting VFM tuning. You pay for a skilled service, with high labour and parts costs.......its gonna cost.

Might aswell just go out an buy the new 335 diesel sport thing, thats rapido, comfy, handles well etc etc.

 

[ahmet]

That's the most unwittingly profound thing Ive seen said on here,
''Throttle bodies are good but I'wouldnt get them again''

Thirty years of tuning and barrow loads of cash expended I'd say' 'don't do it'. Chris K , would I be right in saying that for months you were mentally slavering over the prospect of the neck snapping acceleration the bodies would bring? Sadly,the reality was different, much reduced driveability and horrific juice consumption,with hardly a discernable increase in power.

If only we could all be movie stars/ rich/ Fred/ whatever. In that scenario I bet we would'nt be driving glorified shopping trollys.

lol nice post.

Well some parts are correct some are not.

Driveability was not an issue, the car did not judder and driving was as good as my clio completely standard. However the fuel consumption was not good, so it can be argued that the car did not drive as good as standard. At some points I was getting around 8mpg. This was purely down to mapping which I beleive is now resolved.

The main concern is gains as you say. These engines are s**t for tuning. Now I understand this I won't be wasting my money on it. I'd rather spend my money on other things.

Handling and brakes is where I now draw the line, i've contemplated getting throttle bodies, cams etc etc again but I would be dissapointed. My wallet would be empty, there may be a smile on my face for a few days but it will soon be back to wanting more power. The gains I would get from them are not that great anyway.

Look at jon (TheJesus) who now has my old 172 with bodies. He had a race with a cup that had spent maybe £1.5k on mods maximum. Considering the amount of money that had been spent on mine (£6-7k so far), I know which car i'd rather have. The cup with £5k spare cash.

I will stop rambling.

yes but cups gear ratios are closer.so if you had that throttle bodies package on cup or mk2 it will be much quicker

 

[ChrisR]

yes but cups gear ratios are closer.so if you had that throttle bodies package on cup or mk2 it will be much quicker

thought they used the same box?

 

[edde]

yes but cups gear ratios are closer.so if you had that throttle bodies package on cup or mk2 it will be much quicker

thought they used the same box?

Nope phase 1's have the longer box the phase 2 and Cup use the same shorter ratio box to make up for the fact they were hevaier as they needed to be just as quick to 60 for the adverts.

 

[Fred@BTM]

the difference between the boxes is SO small its not even worth mentioning IMO, the mk1 is just nicer to drive (more precise)

ja.jack, i'm not loaded, far from it, i just spend every penny i have on cars, i go clothes shopping once every 12months and have my hair cut every 6months!

 

[edde]

ja.jack, i'm not loaded, far from it, i just spend every penny i have on cars, i go clothes shopping once every 12months and have my hair cut every 6months!

Ever year? Thats an extravagence I don't even go that much you big spender.

 

[BenR]

yea, but he goes to charity shops.

And so do i.

I've got an orange sweat top from 1970 with big collars and the name tag 'edmund swodoba' sewed in it.

 

[Fred@BTM]

nothing wrong with Oxfam!

 

[Oli22]

The main concern is gains as you say. These engines are s**t for tuning. Now I understand this I won't be wasting my money on it. I'd rather spend my money on other things.

ive had my 172 for a few months and is completly standard. Im looking into modding it with just a few simple changes. I want to lower it(any reccomendations on what springs and how low?), put a viper Induction kit in and prob an exhaust. are this mods worth doing?

 

[ChrisR]

thought they used the same box?

Nope phase 1's have the longer box the phase 2 and Cup use the same shorter ratio box to make up for the fact they were hevaier as they needed to be just as quick to 60 for the adverts.

ahh I read it wrong, I thought they chap was saying that the phase 2 full fat and cup used diff boxes, it must have been late...

 

[edde]

I want to lower it(any reccomendations on what springs and how low?), put a viper Induction kit in and prob an exhaust. are this mods worth doing?

Eisback or however you spell it are the best springs alone IMO. But your much better off spending on new springs and dampers as well in the form of coilovers say H and R but there £750 or so.

If you want power the intake manaifols working are the best value realy. £180 or so your looking at for it all done.

Decat helps but many people don't want the hastle. the normal cat is a bit restrictive though.

 

[Fred@BTM]

edde, how many times!!!

E I B A C H, pronounced eye-back

 

[edde]

edde, how many times!!!

E I B A C H, pronounced eye-back

A million more should make it sink in. I should put a postit on my PC I think.

Doens't help you prounch it.

 

[Batman]

prounch? isnt it pronounce? i think hehe

tiz the season to be merry

i think edde's had to many

tra la la laaaa la la la laaaa

my gf complains i should buy clothes more often for christ sake i have over 30 good t-shirts!

 

[Lagerlout]

Has nobody ever heard of the law of diminishing returns?