PC Graphics Card Help

[Norris_309]

What better place to ask for PC issue than CS
So, my lad had a 'gaming' PC specs:

MSI B450 Carbon something or other Motherboard
AMD Ryzen 5 2600 cpu
16GB Corsair Vengeance 3000Mhz (2x8GB - in correct dual channel slots)
E-VGA GTX680 2GB GPU
Some random ssds
Too many light up fans!

So, he's had this PC for a few years, it's been fine, we got the gtx680 as he couldn't afford a decent graphics card at the time so a lad at work sold me that for £30. Thinking in a few years he'd buy a new one.

That time came last week as it was his birthday & he'd saved up some cash. we were going to get a 1660ti but as he will no doubt upgrade other bits as & when, he went for the 3060ti thinking it'd be a better option.
MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Ti VENTUS 3X LHR 8GB OC GPU - RTX 3060 Ti VENTUS 3X 8G OC LHR | CCL (cclonline.com)

Now, I did realise that the gpu is probably overkill for the cpu situation, but surely even if the cpu was a bottleneck it'd be better than the aging gtx680

However, he's not happy with it at all. We just put fortnite on with the 3060ti & then swapped it for the gtx680 & there wasn't much in it fps wise..
The frame rate seems to drop off just like the 680 does, only difference being the noise from the 680 is like a jet engine, the 3060 is quieter (probably just idling?)

I have done a benchmark test & the score was 10350 or something like that which was inline with another 3060ti, the gtx680 was under 3000 so that test looks ok.

I'm a bit lost as to what to try now.. is it the cpu? i struggle to believe the 3060ti wouldn't be better even with the 2600 cpu?
If i send the card back i bet they'll just do a benchmark test that will no doubt show the cards fine?!

Any ideas on what I could try? (short of buying a cpu to try!!)

Thanks for any advice

 

[SharkyUK]

What graphics level settings/preset is he playing at, and what FPS is he seeing?

 

[Norris_309]

now you're asking!.. it's 1080p resolution
Settings we kept the same just now with both,

Just asked him what fortnite was set to:
Performance mode
Distance - high
Texture - high
fps wise, it does get to 144 (which he's capped it at for the monitor) but it dips down to 80 all the time and occasionally 60
It also has noticeable slip second freezing.

Would the peak internet times affect fps on online games do you think? I tried it briefly today when he was at school but i don't know anything about the games!.. it was as much as i could do to fire the game up.. but it seemed fine to me in the middle of the day & appeared better to me.
I'm more impessed with how the 680 has been to be honest lol, it doesn't help that I don't play games so not sure what to expect, but after spending £500, you'd expect an improvement regardless.. wouldn't you?

(thanks for the quick reply too! he's doing my head in moaning about it!)

 

[Mr Squashie]

Could possibly be driver related. Download DDU and use it to remove all Nvidia drivers on your system, then download the latest driver from the Nvidia website.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

With a Ryzen 3600 and 3060ti I could play in 4k at reasonable frame rates.

The 2600 isn't that far behind it. Definitely shouldn't be dipping that low.

Have you got all the PCIe lanes available or is there a bottleneck there?

Try the drivers as suggested. Also see if there's anything else running in the background.

 

[Norris_309]

I'm glad you've said that, as my lad & his mates keep banging on about the cpu is the issue, I can imagine the cpu would hold it back somewhat but not to make it the same or possibly worse than the 680.

I've just ran that DDU app & re-downloaded & installed the drivers from Nvidia, popped the 3060 back in and he started fortnite.. waiting for this flying bus it sat on 144fps & the was dropping to 60 just stood there. In the game, he stood still and it was on 144, clicked to jump & it went to 67, moving around with minimal action going on it went lower that 60on occasions down in the 70s & 80s a lot, but also back up to 144?.. I get the impression the aim is for it to sit on 144 whatever is happening on screen.

I'm not a gamer, so no idea what a reasonable framerate would be, but it should be better than that gtx680!..

I'm lost with it all. oddly after re-installing the drivers i did run this furmark gpu benchmark app, it scored 9800ish, whereas before it was 10300?

I haven't updated the motherboard BIOS, maybe that could be the cause? or have we maybe got unlucky with a faulty card?
Also, background apps he has a few things running, but they are running when we try the old 680 too.

I have contacted the company i bought it from so will await what they say, just wanted to try & cover anything they're likely to ask.

Thanks for all the ideas

 

[SharkyUK]

The CPU in your lad's PC is relatively weak by today's standards but should be capable of a relatively decent and consistent framerate. It's entirely possible that there is a bottleneck but I would still expect to see more consistent frame pacing on that setup (at least an improvement on the GTX680).

A quick look online suggests that Fortnite does seem to have issues with 3060Ti in some circumstances so I don't think it's the GPU to blame - hence I would surmise that the problem lay somewhere elsewhere. Does he run with high-quality shadows? That can be an issue. Also, I wouldn't expect that setup to maintain a consistent 144fps unless the settings were dialled down a little.

Just out of interest, does he have nVidia overlay running (via GeForce Experience?) or some other form of software that he might use for recording gameplay? Is he running DX11 or DX12 mode? And is he using nVidia Reflex Boost mode?

FPS as a performance metric is pretty crap, too - so don't be concerned if the frame rate drops now and again to say 100fps. If it's dropping to 60 or less regularly then that is an issue (but, as said, I don't think it's the graphics card).

 

[Mr Squashie]

It's a long shot, but is your RAM running at the advertised speeds? Double check in BIOS that XMP is enabled.

 

[Norris_309]

The CPU in your lad's PC is relatively weak by today's standards but should be capable of a relatively decent and consistent framerate. It's entirely possible that there is a bottleneck but I would still expect to see more consistent frame pacing on that setup (at least an improvement on the GTX680).

A quick look online suggests that Fortnite does seem to have issues with 3060Ti in some circumstances so I don't think it's the GPU to blame - hence I would surmise that the problem lay somewhere elsewhere. Does he run with high-quality shadows? That can be an issue. Also, I wouldn't expect that setup to maintain a consistent 144fps unless the settings were dialled down a little.

Just out of interest, does he have nVidia overlay running (via GeForce Experience?) or some other form of software that he might use for recording gameplay? Is he running DX11 or DX12 mode? And is he using nVidia Reflex Boost mode?

FPS as a performance metric is pretty crap, too - so don't be concerned if the frame rate drops now and again to say 100fps. If it's dropping to 60 or less regularly then that is an issue (but, as said, I don't think it's the graphics card).

I’ve just asked him about the DX11/12 reflex boost and he tells me he’s using ‘performance’ mode which is an option which so say makes it run better?

im watching the fps part but it does appear to stutter for want of a better term when the rate drops so it’s very noticeable.
He’s now on gta driving along and it has split second freezing when driving around in a car.

It's a long shot, but is your RAM running at the advertised speeds? Double check in BIOS that XMP is enabled.

I have looked at the ram settings in the bios. It was manually set to 3000mhz, I did try changing it to use a-xmp but it seemed to force you to pick an xmp profile 1 or 2 the profile 2 had mhz at 29xx not 3000? Profile 1 was less again.

when looking in task manager at the memory it states 16gb 1500mhz however I’ve read that windows displays it like that so half the ram mhz? Seems wrong but it is half of 3000 so who knows! Does your tan display correct in windows?

 

[hopgop1]

Sounds like drivers to me, I'd download geforce experience fresh, download the latest drivers and do a custom installation and do a clean install. 3060ti and a 2600 should be more than enough for Fortnite at decent FPS and a good improvement over a 680.
DDU is a good utility to clean old drivers too as mentioned above.
Also when running Fortnite, what is the CPU and GPU utilisations showing up like in task manager under the performance tab? Is either at 100%? If neither are it suggests there may be an issue.

 

[Norris_309]

Sounds like drivers to me, I'd download geforce experience fresh, download the latest drivers and do a custom installation and do a clean install. 3060ti and a 2600 should be more than enough for Fortnite at decent FPS and a good improvement over a 680.
DDU is a good utility to clean old drivers too as mentioned above.
Also when running Fortnite, what is the CPU and GPU utilisations showing up like in task manager under the performance tab? Is either at 100%? If neither are it suggests there may be an

I’ve ran DDU and reinstalled the drivers downloaded from nvidia. I didn’t do a custom install mind you.

when running Fortnite and gta the cpu and gpu both get nowhere near 100% (the 680 did I think) I’m just running a ram diagnostic tool at the moment to see if that shows anything

 

[Mr Squashie]

when looking in task manager at the memory it states 16gb 1500mhz however I’ve read that windows displays it like that so half the ram mhz?

Yeah that's correct, if task manager shows 1500 then your memory speed is 3000. Something something Double Data Rate yada yada yada, I'm not an engineer so I can't explain further 😂

Just thinking about the very noticeable stutters you're having, have you got V Sync turned on? Try disabling it in game and see if you're still getting the big stutters. It won't affect frame rate, but it could be making the experience worse instead of improving it. I tend to disable it in all games, but apply the fast vsync profile in the Nvidia 3D settings menu from the desktop.

 

[Norris_309]

Ram checked out ok.
vsync is disabled
CPU and GPU both are around the 40% mark.
However… I’ve just discovered he’s got some games stored on a laptop HDD!
He has 2 SSDs in there and a HDD that was intended just to store pictures etc.

I missed the task manager showing disk 3 HDD in use when loading games and the 2 SSDs are 0%
I just assumed it was as initially installed, kids!

I expect that drive is a 5400rpm drive that would maybe explain the stuttering do you think.
He is intending to get an m.2 drive, so think we’ll get one of those and bin the 3 current drives he has, reinstall windows and the games all on the one drive so we know where it all is.

hopefully that’ll sort it out?…. Thanks for all your help with this.
I told him he could have bought a newer Xbox for the price of that 3060ti

 

[Norris_309]

Years ago when he wanted a PC I refused to buy him the whole thing at £1000+ so we went with building one, buying decent parts for the main bits that he could afford and I managed to get some old SSDs and a gpu from work so he could have it working and then save up for an m.2 and a decent modern gpu later… but years on he ended up not bothering buying the parts so just made do.
that idea has come back to bite me now hey lol

 

[Ph1 Tom]

 

[Mr Squashie]

I’ve just discovered he’s got some games stored on a laptop HDD!

I told him he could have bought a newer Xbox for the price of that 3060ti

Yeah but then he'd be a console pleb 😂

that idea has come back to bite me now

Aside from this issue, which may very well turn out to be as simple as installing a game on the equivalent of a vinyl record, he's still got a great base as far as upgrades go. You still won't be getting 100% usage from the 3060Ti with that 2600, but hopefully the stuttering will be resolved and the low dips should be a bit higher than you're currently experiencing. And when he/you have saved up a bit more money you should be able to buy a second hand 3000 or 5000 series Ryzen CPU, which will absolutely transform that PC (assuming the motherboard will support it, you'll have to Google to see if there's an updated BIOS for the newer processors)

 

[Norris_309]

My thoughts exactly… I feel bad I never noticed the HDD/vinyl player in use damn it, sorry for possibly wasting everyone’s time. (Although I’m hoping it is the issue!)

from what I’ve read his Msi carbon b450 motherboard has an update now that will support 5000 series cpus, the box states it supports 2000 & 3000 out of the box.
He was totally prepared to not see the full potential of the new gpu with his current cpu, but was very disappointed when it’s no better than the £30 gtx680 he has had for years! He saved his paper round money and used all
His birthday money to buy it the poor sod.
Just seemed pointless getting a 1660 now.

He will be getting an m.2 shortly, he has enough for a 1tb WD black sn770 which on paper looks to be a decent option for not a bad price. Just debating waiting for any Black Friday deals.

 

[Mr Squashie]

My thoughts exactly… I feel bad I never noticed the HDD/vinyl player in use damn it, sorry for possibly wasting everyone’s time. (Although I’m hoping it is the issue!)

from what I’ve read his Msi carbon b450 motherboard has an update now that will support 5000 series cpus, the box states it supports 2000 & 3000 out of the box.
He was totally prepared to not see the full potential of the new gpu with his current cpu, but was very disappointed when it’s no better than the £30 gtx680 he has had for years! He saved his paper round money and used all
His birthday money to buy it the poor sod.
Just seemed pointless getting a 1660 now.

He will be getting an m.2 shortly, he has enough for a 1tb WD black sn770 which on paper looks to be a decent option for not a bad price. Just debating waiting for any Black Friday deals.

If it makes him feel any better, I ended up building an entire new PC after upgrading my GPU once. Saw absolutely no performance gains after swapping my GTX 670 to an HD 7990, but there was basically no upgrade path for CPU (an FX 8350) so I decided to bite the bullet and just build a new system. I'm still using the 4790k that I upgraded to, and have gone through 3 more GPUs since then, so it wasn't all bad. Definitely showing its age now though, may have to retire it soon if I've got any money left after renovating our flat 😂😭

 

[Jonnio]

If you're gonna do a Windows re-install at some point you could optimise the hell out of it with some YouTube vids. Depends how far you wanna go!

 

[Mr Squashie]

If you're gonna do a Windows re-install at some point you could optimise the hell out of it with some YouTube vids. Depends how far you wanna go!

That guy looks super annoying just from the thumbnails 😂

 

[Norris_309]

Yeah it’s looking like a new m.2 drive so will do a clean install of windows and hope that is the main issue.
CPU upgrade will be next year, although he got a load of cash tips from his paper round last year so maybe sooner.
But if it runs games ok on the 2600 then he’ll (I’ll) be happy!

for now, he wants the new war zone which he says is coming out tomorrow, so I suggested he wipe the d: drive which is a small ssd and install war zone on there (if it’ll fit!?) and see if that runs ok. If so then hopefully we can wait a few days/weeks to see if any m.2 drives come on offer.
I’ll have a look at the YouTube vids on windows optimisation if the thumbnails don’t put me off 😂

 

[Norris_309]

That guy looks super annoying just from the thumbnails 😂

😂 just clicked the link… I see what you mean

 

[R3k1355]

MSI site says it'll support the 3rd Gen Ryzen, so you should be able to bang a newer CPU in it and bring the system right upto date.

The 5800X is a pretty good VFM and would be a good match to the new card.

 

[Maccy]

Late to the party, but CPU will definitely be holding him back. Also has anyone mentioned temps and how the GPU & CPU are looking?

 

[Ant1]

Buy him a new cpu lol.

 

[R3k1355]

Buy him a new cpu lol.

Christmas present sorted

 

[Norris_309]

Late to the party, but CPU will definitely be holding him back. Also has anyone mentioned temps and how the GPU & CPU are looking?

Temps seem fine when in use and benchmarking tools seem to perform fine.
when you say cpu will hold it back, I get that but would you say it’hold back a 3060ti so much that you’d not see an improvement over a gtx680? That’s the bit I struggle to grasp.

Buy him a new cpu lol.

And no… 😂 I’ll help him out when he deserves it but I don’t buy him things for no reason.
He can decide not to waste his money on energy drinks and skittles and save for the cpu if he so wishes.

 

[Norris_309]

Christmas present sorted

That is a possibility if he plays his cards right! But he’s 15 and is late for school every day and doesn’t get off this pc when he’s asked… so chances are, mother will throw it out of the window before Christmas the way he’s going.

Msi motherboard box says it’ll take a 3000 series cpu I gather that’s the likes of 3600, I’ve read online a bios upgrade will allow a 5000 series.. so a 5600
But what I wouldn’t want is to get a 5600 and then find we need a motherboard 😭😡 then we really do have a new pc

Xbox anyone 🫣

 

[Maccy]

Temps seem fine when in use and benchmarking tools seem to perform fine.
when you say cpu will hold it back, I get that but would you say it’hold back a 3060ti so much that you’d not see an improvement over a gtx680? That’s the bit I struggle to grasp.

You should be seeing a massive difference, quick google comparison - https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-3060-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-680/4090vs3148

Have you given inside a clean, removed dust from all fans and CPU cooler?
What power supply does it have?

 

[R3k1355]

The list of supported processors is here https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC/support#cpu
If the manufacturer says it is supported, I'd install the latest firmware now, but it should plug and play after that if you decide to go for it.

With those upgrades the system should be good for several more years, which is really pretty good going IMO.

 

[Norris_309]

You should be seeing a massive difference, quick google comparison - https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-3060-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-680/4090vs3148

Have you given inside a clean, removed dust from all fans and CPU cooler?
What power supply does it have?

That’s all we could wish for really, a good step up from the old gpu.
I did give it a good clean out when I fitted the 3060, so all fans and cpu heat sink is pretty clear from dust now.
PSU wise, it’s a Corsair 550w gold can’t remember the exact model name (I’m out at work currently) so maybe getting on the lower end but most sources suggest 550w should be ok providing it’s a decent psu which it is.

The list of supported processors is here https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC/support#cpu
If the manufacturer says it is supported, I'd install the latest firmware now, but it should plug and play after that if you decide to go for it.

With those upgrades the system should be good for several more years, which is really pretty good going IMO.

I’m glad you said that as that was the intention. With the limited amour of money he had initially we tried to buy the best bits for things we wanted to last and scrimp on the easily upgradable. Which enabled him to have a ‘gaming’ pc. So we got the motherboard and cpu and psu that seemed decent at the time. Went with good ram but initially only 8Gb but has since added another 8. The drives and gpu were the needed upgrades that he never did as it was ‘working’ so we’re now at this point.

 

[Maccy]

That’s all we could wish for really, a good step up from the old gpu.
I did give it a good clean out when I fitted the 3060, so all fans and cpu heat sink is pretty clear from dust now.
PSU wise, it’s a Corsair 550w gold can’t remember the exact model name (I’m out at work currently) so maybe getting on the lower end but most sources suggest 550w should be ok providing it’s a decent psu which it is.

550W *should* be enough, I'll have a further think on this

 

[Ph1 Tom]

That’s all we could wish for really, a good step up from the old gpu.
I did give it a good clean out when I fitted the 3060, so all fans and cpu heat sink is pretty clear from dust now.
PSU wise, it’s a Corsair 550w gold can’t remember the exact model name (I’m out at work currently) so maybe getting on the lower end but most sources suggest 550w should be ok providing it’s a decent psu which it is.

I’m glad you said that as that was the intention. With the limited amour of money he had initially we tried to buy the best bits for things we wanted to last and scrimp on the easily upgradable. Which enabled him to have a ‘gaming’ pc. So we got the motherboard and cpu and psu that seemed decent at the time. Went with good ram but initially only 8Gb but has since added another 8. The drives and gpu were the needed upgrades that he never did as it was ‘working’ so we’re now at this point.

I've got a spare Corsair 650w PSU you can have to try out, it's not really worth much nowadays.

The B450 chipset will run a 5XXX CPU. That's the setup I have in my spare PC, B450 + 5600 CPU.

I only upgraded on my main PC to the X570 chipset because I was limited to 8x PCIe lanes for the GPU with the M.2 drive fitted and another device in the PCIe 4x slot.

 

[R3k1355]

I’m glad you said that as that was the intention. With the limited amour of money he had initially we tried to buy the best bits for things we wanted to last and scrimp on the easily upgradable. Which enabled him to have a ‘gaming’ pc. So we got the motherboard and cpu and psu that seemed decent at the time. Went with good ram but initially only 8Gb but has since added another 8. The drives and gpu were the needed upgrades that he never did as it was ‘working’ so we’re now at this point.

In a few more years you could further upgrade to a 3080 or even 3090Ti without bottleneck issues, that would (ish) give double the grunt of the 3060.

I'd imagine that would pretty much see out the life of the original parts.

 

[Norris_309]

550W *should* be enough, I'll have a further think on this

I have run those benchmarking apps which I thought would highlight a lack of power issue? As I have read diffing opinions on psu size, so I put it down to being ok if it’s a decent psu and maybe not so much if it’s a lower quality one.

I've got a spare Corsair 650w PSU you can have to try out, it's not really worth much nowadays.

The B450 chipset will run a 5XXX CPU. That's the setup I have in my spare PC, B450 + 5600 CPU.

I only upgraded on my main PC to the X570 chipset because I was limited to 8x PCIe lanes for the GPU with the M.2 drive fitted and another device in the PCIe 4x slot.

That’s interesting stuff, shows I should be ok if I do treat him to a 5600, or he saves his cash 👍
Thanks for the offer of the psu, I’ll go with what I got for the time being as I’ve not had anything to make me think it’s struggling. Plus postage for a psu…🫣

thanks for all the help with this lads, really appreciate it!

 

[Martin_172]

Given the mention of mechanical drives with games on it, id just get the M.2, fresh install of windows on it, BIOS update, latest nvidia and motherboard chipset drivers!

Id also give him google and tell him to go research it and fix it himself, benefit him in the long run! - Used to spend hours researching and tweaking with my Pentium II 400MHz system i built when i was a lad!

 

[Norris_309]

To be fair he isn’t afraid to tinker with it… which is sometimes good sometimes bad. I limited his internet usage on the router quite a while ago…. He soon discovered Mac spoofing by himself the Little sod 😂
This graphics card thing is just a frustration too far for him, as I ordered it for his birthday it now becomes my problem! He’s saying it duff so send it back but I thought the same as you guys all have, that’s it’s another issue.
Then I find the game running on the 5400 hdd!
In my mind I’d like to rule out all the things I’d get asked if I did need to send it back if you know what I mean. As he wanted/needs a new drive anyway we can get a decent one and put a clean install of windows so if nothing else it rules out the drive and windows being the issue. But hopefully doing that will cure it and it’ll be playing well.
fingers crossed

 

[Martin_172]

while it's not impossible, the chances of a graphics card arriving, working, just with restricted performance is fairly unlikely. I don't follow AMD these days so can't comment on the CPU performance etc, so assuming that's ruled out as not the cause, for me it's most likely either a software/driver issue, That hard drive, or a potential PSU not keeping up? thats where id start and the first 2 are easily solved if you are planning an m.2 upgrade anyway.

Temperatures all been checked its not a thermal throttle issue?

 

[Daz...]

If the PSU wasn’t providing enough power it would restart the PC when it hits its power limit.

 

[Ant1]

C P U