performance cams

RSTuning · Dec 27, 2011

519 Automotive said:
438s. No compromise. Perfect idle, best gains

Best gains based on what?

421's are the same profile with different timing so providing you get the 421's to idle they WILL make more power than the 438's. At a guess the exhaut will be retarded a few degrees to make the idle but this will take power away compared to not having the r****d.

Jonny1*2 · Dec 27, 2011

Power delivery is excellent on the 421's timed to Renault spec. 204bhp and 170lbft with a high comp setup

Silent_Scone · Dec 27, 2011

Nice engine Jonny

Jonny1*2 · Dec 27, 2011

Silent_Scone said:
Nice engine Jonny

cheers mate

Dan519 · Dec 27, 2011

RSTuning said:
Best gains based on what?

421's are the same profile with different timing so providing you get the 421's to idle they WILL make more power than the 438's. At a guess the exhaut will be retarded a few degrees to make the idle but this will take power away compared to not having the r****d.

they're close, but thats not actually the only difference. The timing changes have no measured negative effect

RSTuning · Dec 27, 2011

Surely the only difference is lift at tdc as that's not shown on the profile?

No doubt they are a food cam profile but till I'm proved wrong I'll stick with the 421's

We'll find out in jan as we are doing some testing

Dan519 · Dec 28, 2011

nope. But then, why would i share that info?

Laine_16v · Dec 28, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
Power delivery is excellent on the 421's timed to Renault spec. 204bhp and 170lbft with a high comp setup

Is that with or without ITB's?

Jonny1*2 · Dec 28, 2011

Laine_16v said:
Is that with or without ITB's?

Without mate. Just running standard 182 throttle.

Chris205 · Dec 28, 2011

What have you changed internally then johnny apart from Cams?

Chip-mk1 · Dec 28, 2011

chris205 said:
What have you changed internally then johnny apart from Cams?

He's already said its high comp mate, so he's obviously changed the pistons.

Jonny1*2 · Dec 28, 2011

Chip-mk1 said:
He's already said its high comp mate, so he's obviously changed the pistons.

A* for you mate

12.8:1 wosners iirc.

Chip-mk1 · Dec 28, 2011

With the rod ratio on these engines being so poor, the high RPM performance is really compromised by the standard compression ratio, but im still surprised to see you got so comfortably over 200bhp from that setup, fair play

Got a full spec list anywhere or a build thread?

Long shot but dont suppose it has been on a DD dyno anywhere, im just more used to figures from them so would be easier for me to compare to other engines?

Jonny1*2 · Dec 28, 2011

No build thread sorry, but it's essentially a race car bottom end. Acl main bearing, arp bolts, high comp pistons with 421 catcams, v6 airbox and cnc'd inlets up top. RR is TDF so is recognized to be accurate. She pulls very nicely low down and gets a bit giddy above 5k

Chip-mk1 · Dec 28, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
No build thread sorry, but it's essentially a race car bottom end. Acl main bearing, arp bolts, high comp pistons with 421 catcams, v6 airbox and cnc'd inlets up top. RR is TDF so is recognized to be accurate. She pulls very nicely low down and gets a bit giddy above 5k

Wasnt trying to say the rollers were high or low or anything, just that i'd have liked to have seen a DD one as its what im used to, no offence intended.

Can certainly see the step up in performance at 5K

What ECU is that on? Standard with a remap I take it if you are still running the standard inlet etc?

Jonny1*2 · Dec 28, 2011

No worries. It's standard management yes. Looking into aftermarket next year.

Chris_786 · Dec 28, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
No build thread sorry, but it's essentially a race car bottom end. Acl main bearing, arp bolts, high comp pistons with 421 catcams, v6 airbox and cnc'd inlets up top. RR is TDF so is recognized to be accurate. She pulls very nicely low down and gets a bit giddy above 5k

how much was that work at TDF? if you dont mind me asking, PM me if you prefer?

Chris205 · Dec 28, 2011

Chip-mk1 said:
He's already said its high comp mate, so he's obviously changed the pistons.

Sorry mate I knew that I was more interested in what other parts had been used i.e different valves, head work, other work done to the bottom end bar pistons

Jonny1*2 said:
No build thread sorry, but it's essentially a race car bottom end. Acl main bearing, arp bolts, high comp pistons with 421 catcams, v6 airbox and cnc'd inlets up top. RR is TDF so is recognized to be accurate. She pulls very nicely low down and gets a bit giddy above 5k

That's the answer I was after

Jonny1*2 · Dec 29, 2011

Chris_786 said:
how much was that work at TDF? if you dont mind me asking, PM me if you prefer?

Price is in their trader section mate

RSTuning · Dec 30, 2011

519 Automotive said:
nope. But then, why would i share that info?

Maybe because i'm right in saying the only difference is the actual cam timing!

Jonny1*2 · Dec 30, 2011

why are 438's not on the catcam website?

Laine_16v · Dec 30, 2011

They are an exsclusive profile for Ktec only

dmallett · Dec 30, 2011

and 519 automotive....

Jonny1*2 · Dec 31, 2011

But no profiles disclosed? Surely they would put something up considering it's their name on the cams? Regardless of exclusivity.

Dan519 · Dec 31, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
But no profiles disclosed? Surely they would put something up considering it's their name on the cams? Regardless of exclusivity.

I really do wonder if people bother to look before having a pop. http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=4033&appid=2

Silent_Scone · Dec 31, 2011

Exclusive is a word that should only be used in girls magazines

Chip-mk1 · Dec 31, 2011

519 Automotive said:
I really do wonder if people bother to look before having a pop. http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=4033&appid=2

438:
5502438 276 / 268 240 / 231 11.25 / 10.25 mm

421:
5502421 276 / 268 240 / 231 11.25 / 10.25 mm

Certainly looks like Rs Tuning is correct that the only difference is the timing centreline based on the specs quoted.

Jonny1*2 · Dec 31, 2011

519 Automotive said:
I really do wonder if people bother to look before having a pop. http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=4033&appid=2

Not on the catcam website though

Chip-mk1 · Dec 31, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
Not on the catcam website though

Why on earth would they be on the catcam website if they are exclusive to ktec though?

Jonny1*2 · Jan 1, 2012

Chip-mk1 said:
Why on earth would they be on the catcam website if they are exclusive to ktec though?

When you put it like that....lol. Just assumed there would still be something.

Laine_16v · Jan 1, 2012

Think im going to treat myself to a set of these cams for my birthday this month, 186bhp starting point should make for some interesting results..

Chip-mk1 · Jan 1, 2012

Would be interesting to find out why yours seems to make more power than other engines to begin with, must be something different about it but I guess you dont know enough of its history to know if its been played with or not?

Andyman · Jan 1, 2012

Maybe its down to cams and piston combo? Never seem many on here running a forged set up just with cams

Chip-mk1 · Jan 1, 2012

Andyman said:
Maybe its down to cams and piston combo? Never seem many on here running a forged set up just with cams

Hotter cams on every engine Ive ever tuned work well with higher compression.
At the top end of the rev range where the induction stroke timebase is so diminished it means that what little intake charge you manage to get into the engine you really do want to be able to work as hard as possible, so with cams working better higher in the rev range, its a natural marriage between them and higher comp.

Jamesstone · Jan 1, 2012

Chip-mk1 said:
438:
5502438 276 / 268 240 / 231 11.25 / 10.25 mm

421:
5502421 276 / 268 240 / 231 11.25 / 10.25 mm

Certainly looks like Rs Tuning is correct that the only difference is the timing centreline based on the specs quoted.

Wow 428's could be back up in value if there is a cam setting tool that could allow them to be set the same as the 438's!

Any one that knows my history with Catcams know's why I would never touch a set again, I was one of the lucky one's who ended up with the duff batch of 428's, What a pleasure that was fitting then driving to holland for Henk to calibrate to tell me they had been machined wrong, Yay! then JMS bought a set of 421's for the race car that were machined wrong on the VVT end, Yay again!

Hopefully 438 means they have finally pulled there finger out!

mitch1503 · Jan 1, 2012

Chip-mk1 said:
Would be interesting to find out why yours seems to make more power than other engines to begin with, must be something different about it but I guess you dont know enough of its history to know if its been played with or not?

theres a few about Chip mines not as high as Laines but mine made 182bhp in november and thats standard

Laine_16v · Jan 1, 2012

Its the silver cups, renault put special engines in them

I'm binning the air con on mine too, should free up an extra horse or two aswell.

Andyman · Jan 1, 2012

Jamesstone said:
Wow 428's could be back up in value if there is a cam setting tool that could allow them to be set the same as the 438's!

Any one that knows my history with Catcams know's why I would never touch a set again, I was one of the lucky one's who ended up with the duff batch of 428's, What a pleasure that was fitting then driving to holland for Henk to calibrate to tell me they had been machined wrong, Yay! then JMS bought a set of 421's for the race car that were machined wrong on the VVT end, Yay again!

Hopefully 438 means they have finally pulled there finger out!

Same as me

Did Cat Cams replace yours? - They did mine but lost out ££££ on lost fitting and mapping costs.

Jamesstone · Jan 1, 2012

Andyman said:
Same as me

Did Cat Cams replace yours? - They did mine but lost out ££££ on lost fitting and mapping costs.

Yes they resolved the 428's same as you, Lost out on all the fitting/ removal, cambelt kit, aux belt, driving across Europe etc... all part of the fun

421's on the other hand were ball ache to get resolved, Still not completely happy.........

I was told there were only a couple of stray 428's on the market but seems there are a few still out there from the word I've heard over the past months, Hopefully a thing of the past for the 438!

Andyman · Jan 1, 2012

Yeah was told the same, only a couple of dodgy sets.

Would never have known they were dodgy if it wasn't for having different cams fitted previous and had a comparison to go by.

performance cams

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