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Peugeot 306 Rallye - not that quick(!)



  CTR EK9 turbo


During a toasting session the other night a modded 306 Rallye ("zorst" and filter by the sounds of things) was speeding around everywhere. I had the chance to come up behind him at the lights. He gave it big acceleration from the lights and i was most suprised: i thought that our acceleration would be very similar and that i would only just edge past, if not just stay with him. This was not the case. I had to completely back off the throttle in second at around 5000 rpm and wait until he got further away from me, the same happened in 3rd and then in 4th i got bored. Maybe it was a "badged-up" sh!tter like these boats in the forum weve been talking to recently? it was a loud machine and looked quite fast when i saw him toasting it earlier. It was very slow compared to my car! how strange!? Another car not to lose any sleep over...
 

GR7

  Shiny red R32


Simon I think you were right about the re-badging as my friend has a very quick 306 Rallye which keeps up with most things! Sounds very throaty too!
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


Maybe he was just a really bad driver(?) he did seem to take ages to change gear. They havent got that less bhp than the 172, arent they 167 bhp? how much do they weigh? they do sound cool too!
 


I also reckon it was re-badged. The 306 Rallye is another wolf in sheeps clothing. I like em, and when Ive had a chance for a quick race with one, they seem to be very similar to the 172.

Rhys
 

GR7

  Shiny red R32


They are also lighter than my last Pug and the GTi6, as some of the goodies like electric windows/leather upholstery were removed, so they are quicker than you think - unless like me, you know one!
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


If anyone wants to race it go to guildford on a sunday evening and see for yourselves! Hes always toasting around, and whatever engine hes got under there, hes done an *excellent* job of badging it up like a rallye. It certainly was a lot slower than mine. Maybe ill try and get him to stop and have a look under the bonnet. Although i do have a new group n ecu, maybe those extra revs helped me have more of an edge on him?
 


Our Rallye was stonking and arsekicking until I decided to put nice looking and heavy 17 inchers on it. Steering became unbelieavably heavy, it markedly lost performance, and kept hitting the arches whenever there were more than 2 people in the car.

Then I bought a Scorpion piece of sh*t cat back system, which made a loud booming sort of noise at all speeds and eventually melted.

But it looked the bollox.
 


they aint that quick i had one in front of me he caught me off guard at the lights i soon caught him though, and had the same easing off throttle problem so i didnt rear end him..:cool:
 

GR7

  Shiny red R32


Well, as I said above, I know a 306 Rallye which is quick - it is black as well!!

Remember that not all drivers want to race - especially when they know they can beat you if they really want to!

;)
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


My Rallye aint slow...

Ask the driver of the silver mk1 172 on Sunday evening coming past Bury! ;)



Not everyone wants to keep accelerating at full pace and reach silly speeds though. Some people will gun it up to a point then back off.

A Rallye is 0-60 in 6.9secs and 0-100 in 19.2secs, so not slow!
 


of course its not slow itll prob beat 90% of the cars on the rd. The clios light though 17s to 100! Maybe bury boy cant drive or has crap fuel in it.
 


Sounds like a badged up S16 or 2.0 XSi to me. Both are respectably quick, which would explain why the 172 didnt totally hammer the car. But they still arent as quick as the full-on GTi-6/Rallye. Much like a Mk1 1.8 RSi is to the 16v and Williams.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


The 172 is not much faster than the Rallye to 100...

High 17s/low 18s in the mk1 and high 18s in the mk2, vs low 19s in the 306, so maybe a second in it tops!

Now all cars are different and all drivers are different, so there is no way every car will be bang on those stats, every time. The cars are that close that in the real world theyd be very close on the road.



Also... my Rallye was rolling roaded at RE in Bury recently and has 151bhp @ wheels, so a little more poke than it should have! ;)
 


My Rallye was fecking fast until I stuck some nice 17 inch wheels on it. Bad move. Looked the tits, but markedly slower, steering got much heavier with less feedback. A mate has it now, and hes contemplating another wheel change. We learn as we live...
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Pillesnoppen -

Well seeing as how you had a 306 Rallye and now have a Clio Cup to replace it, you will be a very good person to ask how much slower a Rallye is in real life...



I agree about bigger wheels too, they can really alter a cars performance and handling...

Only moved from the standard 14s to 15s on my 106 GTi and I am planning in sticking to the standard 15s on the 306, as I really like the wheels and dont wanna alter the balance of the car. If I did get different wheels, theyd only be 16s and match the width & profile to keep it as close as possible.
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


This ones been dug up again from July 2002! wow. I really like the 306 rallye and a friend wanted to buy one after hed test driven it, but after driving mine decided not to ;)

It could be a case of a friday afternoon car as seems to be the problem with many 172s also. It cant only be an issue with renaults im sure. My car feels stonkingly quick most of the time, but some times can have its off moments. I guess its due to engine bay heat or state of engine - ecu operating mode(?) The way the engine was run in, the state of the oil, fuel grade, the weight of the load, the driver! etc etc. So many factors and also that if you get 2 cars with identical power outputs and one of them floors it first then that one will win.

But in my case above - he accelerated first (in front of me) and i came up behind him and had to back off the throttle loads to avoid rear ending and he was definately going for it, at one point he decided to go at a silly speed to which i backed off and thought:" i could have had him and wont bother now".

What are the stats for the 306 rallye?

weight? torque?
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Simon172 on 11 February 2003


This ones been dug up again from July 2002! wow.
I know...

Was a bit shocked when I saw the date of the original post! :eek:
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Simon172 on 11 February 2003


What are the stats for the 306 rallye?

weight? torque?
Peugeot 306 Rallye -

Engine - 1998cc 4cyl DOHC 16v
Power - 167bhp @ 6500rpm
Torque - 145lb/ft @ 5500rpm
Weight - 1163kg
0-60 - 6.9secs
0-100 - 19.2secs
Speed - 140mph


Not too shabby for a larger car... ;)



Basicallly the Rallye is to the GTi-6, what the Cup is to the 172. Basically the same car, but stripped out, so less weight = more go!
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by 172man on 11 February 2003

the 172 is 17s the others are pants slow
Curious as to where you are getting your 0-100 time from???

From what Ive seen, it will not do it in the 17s mate...


Clio 172 mk1 -

0-60 - 6.6secs
0-100 - 18.2secs


Clio 172 mk2 -

0-60 - 7.1secs
0-100 - 18.9secs


So (compared to the 306 Rallye) the mk1 is 0.3secs faster to 60 & 1sec faster to 100, with the mk2 actually being 0.2secs slower to 60, yet 0.3secs faster to 100, so close.

Basically there aint as much in it as you may like to think and driver skill would easily determine the outcome on the road!



Anyone know what the in-gear and mid-range times are for the Clio(s) then???
 
  S2000


If yer going to post best known figures for one car, you might as well post them for both cars.

MK2 - Best 0-60 in a mag = 6.7

MK2 - Best 0-100 in a mag = 17.9

At Trax the MK2 was tested at 6.6 to 60 also! Dont forget Paddys AP time of 17.3 to 100 also!!



:D
 
  S2000


The best 30-70 time I have seen for the MK2 in a mag was 6.2 through the gears. I have also tested mine with the AP and got 6.2!
 


rich d you dont mention any in gear times which are very important as is braking from 100 which the 172 has been tested at 3.99 secs thats super car whooping, also teady is right about the 17.9 secs i have the issue somewhere in my room, also autoexpress tested the mk1 ages ago at 6.54 secs vs a proton gti and 206 gti it was a while ago though. Cest tres bon!
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


Quite impressive those times for the 306 rallye seeing as its 128 kg heavier than the mk.1 172! I always wonder why people say that 1 second between cars 0-100 times "arent that much different" on the road but when they race on the quarter mile "strip" 1 second is an absolutely HUGE gap! On quarter mile rivals website it quotes the rover BRM as 16.something i think .2 for the quarter mile. The gap between us (me and my bros BRM) is huge when we have our toasts. As is the gap when i race my friends VTS. I cant understand when people say that there isnt much in it between a vts and a 172. I appreciate that most cars are pretty level in first gear due to traction and launch etc (excluding 4x4 obviously) but once in 2nd gear, cars with more bhp/torque etc just pull and pull. I recently read a post on http://www.saxosportsclub.comwww.saxosportsclub.com where people on there were saying that they keep up with 172s up to 100 mph!? and also keep up with CTRs to the same speed!? Even one VTR owner said hes "beaten" a 172!

Heres the post: http://www.saxosportsclub.com/forum/posts.asp?threadid=80798&forumid=1&page=0http://www.saxosportsclub.com/forum/posts.asp?threadid=80798&forumid=1&page=0

I really find it hard to believe there are such sh!te 172s around that would be beaten (in the examples given -usually straight line tests) by cars like a VTR or even a VTS for that matter. But it appears to be happening - obviously there are many factors that need to be considered.
 
  CTR EK9 turbo


But i forgot to mention the main factor - that is the driver. Put 2 equal drivers in a 172 and a car with less bhp/tonne and physics speaks for itself.

Heres an unbelievable similar example, but it features me having a pop at a higher car than mine: a standard Pulsar GtiR. My friend bought this car (standardish - blow off valve and strut brace(?)) we had a good race up a hill: me 3 up and him 2 up. My car was fairly new (low mileage) and we were really going for it. Actually a VTS was in the race too, but that was kinda left behind! Anyway - as we raced up the hill i was able to get into the overtaking lane and come side by side with my friends pulsar and edge past to my disbelief! Now i, to this day am chuffed with the scalp(!) but have never convinced myself that i could beat one really, truly. There must have been something wrong with the pulsar i always think - but on "quarter mile rivals" the time is similar to the mk1 172? i believe they have about 170 bhp per tonne standard, so pretty similar. I guess a knackered one would be producing less, but his didnt appear to be broken and actually wasnt. So i kinda know what its like to be in the "vts shoes". But you wouldnt ever hear of a standard VTS beating a standard pulsar or bug-eye y-reg scooby estate...

Now, its a different story, its been modded quite a bit and leaves me for dead and i mean serious rigamortis!
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Ive got some in gear times and braking times, etc... at home.

Will find them and let you know.



Dont forget that the 306 Rallye has also got a close-ratio 6 speed box...

So that affects in gear times and mid-range.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by 172man on 11 February 2003

rich d you dont mention any in gear times which are very important as is braking from 100 which the 172 has been tested at 3.99 secs thats super car whooping
I asked what the in gear times were, then I can find the Rallye ones and compare them to both the mk1, mk2 & Cup (if possible).

What do you get for say 30-70 (through gears), 30-50 (in 4th) and 50-70 (in 5th), etc... You tell me what ones you wanna know and Ill see if I have them.



As for braking times. I also have an Autocar group test and according to that road test, the mk1 172 does 60-0 in 3.7secs, so no way it can do 100-0 in 3.99secs! :eek:

Here are all the times from that test >>>


60mph - 0mph (braking):

306 GTi-6 - 2.8secs
106GTi - 3.1secs
Proton GTi - 3.0secs
Clio 172 (mk1) - 3.7secs
Fiesta Zetec-S - 2.8secs
Leon 20v T - 2.7secs

The Clio was the worst there! :(

Dont believe that though, as all the 172s Ive driven have superb brakes, but so does the 306.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Simon172 on 11 February 2003


But i forgot to mention the main factor - that is the driver.
Wise words Simon. :D

This is a major factor and very often overlooked...
 


In-gear times? Sad as I am, I actually have Performance Cars original test of the Rallye. 30-70 in 6.1 seconds. For reference, the Cup EVO tested a while back( bearing in mind EVO is Performance Car ), did it in 6.0 seconds. Thats pretty close.

Also Autocar tested the Rallye, stomped from 30-70 in 6.8 seconds, and hey presto, the same mag timed the Cup at 6.7.

So, in my experience, not mucho in it, at least midrange. The Rallye was one of the best drivers cars I have owned.
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by 172man on 13 February 2003


http://www.racecar.co.uk/stealth/autocar1003.htmhttp://www.racecar.co.uk/stealth/autocar1003.htm

This is the test the mk1 172 did the 100-0mph in 3.99secs the fastest time of the day !!!! HAHA RICh D i told you. I had the issue some supercars were getting 4.3 etc... Autocars figures are sooo inconsistent 100 in 19.92 duh they need to use the correct fuel and stop crunching gear changes! muppets
LOL

It seems most magazines are inconsistent mate... ;)

Like I said though, having driven a mk1 172 a LOT, I disagreed with the Autocar results and said they were definately better than that.



Dont forget though, all cars are different!
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Pillesnoppen on 13 February 2003


In-gear times? Sad as I am, I actually have Performance Cars original test of the Rallye. 30-70 in 6.1 seconds. For reference, the Cup EVO tested a while back( bearing in mind EVO is Performance Car ), did it in 6.0 seconds. Thats pretty close.

Also Autocar tested the Rallye, stomped from 30-70 in 6.8 seconds, and hey presto, the same mag timed the Cup at 6.7.

So, in my experience, not mucho in it, at least midrange. The Rallye was one of the best drivers cars I have owned.
LOL

I have an AutoCar test of the Rallye when they were launched, so I am sad too! ;)



Mid range is superb in the Rallye and they have a lot of low end torque, which combined with that 6 speed gearbox means great mid range punch!



Did you think that 1st & 2nd were geared a little long?!

The in gear speeds according to Autocar are -

1st - 43mph @ 7250rpm
2nd - 67mph @ 7250rpm
3rd - 88mph @ 7250rpm
4th - 108mph @ 7250rpm
5th - 130mph @ 7250rpm
6th - 122mph @ 6035rpm
 

Rich-D

ClioSport Club Member
  E90 LCI 330d


Quote: Originally posted by Eric 16v on 13 February 2003


Am I stupid or are the 5th gear speeds there higher than the 6th gear speeds?

Eh?
The speed for 6th is not max speed (obviously) mate...

Not quite sure why they picked 122mph or even 6035rpm?! Not even like they picked say 120mph or 6000rpm, its just random! :confused:



Will pull strongly in 6th though and waaaaay past 122mph too! ;)
 


6th gear is a lot taller, more a cruising gear, but even like this it enables you to bunch up the lower 5 gears !
 


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