Plugs, why ngk?

[bossko]

Hi,

I'm replacing my spark plugs as part of my 172's cup as part of it's service. I know everyone says NGK plugs are the best and 5 time more expensive than other well known makes they should be.

It begs the question are they 5 times better at doing the job, £45 for plugs instead of £10 it's a lot.

It's not as if I'm driving a 911 supercar. Surely they can't make that much difference.

p.s I do love my clio.

​Cheers.

 

[Daz.]

Because they just work.

Buy cheaper ones if you want - but don't come back when it starts playing up Plus you'll probably only ever buy them once while you own the car.

 

[Sam@NP]

The engine was developed to run on them. Honestly, you will encounter some form of miss fire problem when NGK PFR6E-10 are not used. Just be thankful you only need to buy 4 every 75 000 miles.

 

[mark123]

You can get them for less than 40 from traders on here.

It is how long they last compared to the cheap ones I expect. The NGK ones have interval of 5 years 72k miles.
​

 

[Advikaz]

It's a shame they only run properly on these as I deal with Denso & can get the 'equivalents' for virtually nothing.

 

[bossko]

Thanks for the good advice. Looks like I'm buying some NGK plugs.

​Cheers all.

 

[l33th3tr33]

I got some Bosch ones but can't comment as I'm running on two cylinders atm. Is it really THAT much difference?

 

[Sam@NP]

They just work. Simple as.

 

[Briggo]

you will encounter some form of miss fire problem when NGK PFR6E-10 are not used.

That a fact or you just talking?

 

[bossko]

WOW that's terrible. Thanks

 

[-J-]

That a fact or you just talking?

Fact

 

[Advikaz]

I got some Bosch ones but can't comment as I'm running on two cylinders atm. Is it really THAT much difference?

Not super 4's they're sh*teeee & caused problems in my brother in laws cup

 

[Sam@NP]

That a fact or you just talking?

It's based on the experience gained working with Fred, the amount of cars we fixed miss fires on by putting proper plugs in you wouldn't believe.

 

[sam JFM]

Iv known super 4's to take out coil packs

 

[Advikaz]

Iv known super 4's to take out coil packs

Yep, bad, bad plugs.

 

[l33th3tr33]

Are super 4's the ones with 4 contact points? I'm guessing so by the name. If so then it looks like ill be ordering a new set.

 

[Advikaz]

Are super 4's the ones with 4 contact points? I'm guessing so by the name. If so then it looks like ill be ordering a new set.

Yes mate, that's the ones.

 

[Sam@NP]

Are super 4's the ones with 4 contact points? I'm guessing so by the name. If so then it looks like ill be ordering a new set.

Bet you a pint you get all 4 cylinders.

 

[Briggo]

So it's based on experience based on you fixing some cars that have come your way, not a factual statement that all Clios out there will experience misfiring if not fitted.

Which is fine to recommend them on your experience of some broken cars, but to state that your car won't work properly without them is a whole different kettle of fish.

Just wanted to make that clear to decide whether to change mine or not, I'll leave it until the apparently inevitable misfiring occurs.

 

[l33th3tr33]

Bet you a pint you get all 4 cylinders.

I take it you've read my few threads about it? If that is the problem, and it sorts it I will personally drive up to you and deliver a crate of tinnys.

 

[Sam@NP]

So it's based on experience based on you fixing some cars that have come your way, not a factual statement that all Clios out there will experience misfiring if not fitted. Which is fine to recommend them on your experience of some broken cars, but to state that your car won't work properly without them is a whole different kettle of fish. Just wanted to make that clear to decide whether to change mine or not, I'll leave it until the apparently inevitable misfiring occurs.

I'll get you a set ordered up

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

As said no end of people have had running problems with other makes of plugs in these engines. They are designed to run on these NGK plugs and came from the factory with them

This really is a case of buy cheap buy twice....

 

[Stu_350z]

So it's based on experience based on you fixing some cars that have come your way, not a factual statement that all Clios out there will experience misfiring if not fitted.

Which is fine to recommend them on your experience of some broken cars, but to state that your car won't work properly without them is a whole different kettle of fish.

Just wanted to make that clear to decide whether to change mine or not, I'll leave it until the apparently inevitable misfiring occurs.

Love people who think they know best

 

[Briggo]

I'll get you a set ordered up

Haha, if you can get them for me cheap I may take you up on that ready for it.

 

[Briggo]

Love people who think they know best

Never professed to know best my dear, I just want to be informed to decide on whether to change or not now, as I said I'll wait till it will apparently happen, based on the view that some cars go pear shaped Ill go down the route of the car runs perfectly theres no reason to change right now.

 

[Dan519]

You can get them for less than 40 from traders on here.

It is how long they last compared to the cheap ones I expect. The NGK ones have interval of 5 years 72k miles.
​

that's a nonsense interval. Half it, they're always knackered by 36k. there's no time limit on them either

 

[MarcoB]

FLOL @ at people who don't have a clue quashing the experienced view of someone who has probably changed thousands of these.

 

[Dan519]

Iv known super 4's to take out coil packs

same, they are incorrect resistance and overload the coils

 

[EVOgone]

What about a competition F4R ?

 

[Maccy]

I'm sure I didn't pay Dan £45 for plugs alone during my service last year, maybe around that with labour...

 

[mark123]

that's a nonsense interval. Half it, they're always knackered by 36k. there's no time limit on them either

I've run 3 sets for 72k without any problems.

 

[EvoFq3o0]

Found this interesting, Had lambda sensor fault and garage think it may be misfiring. can probably bet these spark plugs aren't in and my lambda sensor could be fine.

​Cheers

 

[Chip-mk1]

IME you can use the cheap ones (make sure to get correct resistance) rather than platinum ones as I have done it when I needed a set in a hurry till I swapped some plat ones in, but if you do then but just accept you will have to do something like change them every 6K with your oil if you want them to carry on working, rather than fit a set of the proper ones and forget about them for 10 times that long, so in the long run the better ones actually work out cheaper.

Problem with keep changing them is if you are on the standard inlet the gasket doesnt like keep coming apart and back together continually really either.

 

[DrR]

Just use what you want, I really couldn't care, but if you want trouble free plugs that last for ages just pay the few £'s more.

 

[Addicted]

Standard cs logic now-a-days, asks question and ignores advice!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I run Denso IK20 gapped for the F4R, IK22 if you want boost.

I've had issues with NGK in the past (cracked ceramics) within 500-1000 miles, 3 times personally and many a time I've helped people out to find they've had the same problem. That's only on Ford engines though but some of those were also developed for NGK plugs IIRC.

They might be fine on the F4R but I've lost faith in them as they've cost me time and money.

 

[Fred@BTM]

when there's a tech note from Renault saying the NGK PFR6E-10 MUST be fitted because anything else can cause misfires, and people STILL don't listen!

BUT (i didn't listen)

We've been using 197/225 plugs in the 172/182 recently without issue, and they're WAY cheaper too (just to try it though)

 

[sam JFM]

Is it just the resistance that makes them unsuitable?

Or are there other reasons the engine is so sensitive?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is it just the resistance that makes them unsuitable?

Or are there other reasons the engine is so sensitive?

The coil is quite fragile so consequently needs a fairly high resistance plug not to excessively discharge.
The environment in an F4R (high comp, plug not protruding massively far, no intrusion on the piston into the squish band) doesnt lend itself very well to a plug having an easy life managing to spark at full load.

So having a very effective plug (like the plat ones) greatly increases your chance of it not misfiring.
If you have new decent leads though (ie magnecore for example) then you can normally get away with the non plat plugs, but you still need to accept they WILL degrade a LOT quicker and hence stop working far far sooner.

 

[Dan519]

We've been using 197/225 plugs in the 172/182 recently without issue, and they're WAY cheaper too (just to try it though)

done the same, usually on tuned engines as they're that one grade colder. Work perfectly. But to be honest BCPR6ES/BCPR7ES/BCR8ES also work perfectly in dozens of engines I've done. (shorter life expectancy though, prob 10-15k) using the correct resistor type plugs is the real key.