Power off oversteer

[viceroy]

Ive just been unfortunate enough to have the front tyres lose traction while going round a corner and then lifting off the power to try get control back and having the rear end come loose, and after almost going backwards I ended up going into someones gate and now I need the front bumper resprayed.

Anyway, once a cars rear end swings round, whats the best way to get it back under control? I was trying to apply the breaks while counter steering, and I think I did ok considering how many cars either end up in the nearby ditch or into an embankment sideways

 

[paddymph]

i just keep it planted, sounds stupid but works for me......

 

[paddymph]

Bad luck BTW, sorry couldnt say ello today, was cream crackered!

 

[2 live]

yeah sorry to hear bout ur car mate

as for controllin the back end stepping out like that as paddy said already........keep ON the power

FLAT OUT

 

[paddymph]

Flat out eh Jon? Fancy that!!!

 

[2 live]

lol

had to take it steady on the way home

dint go above 130............im a good boy lol

 

[viceroy]

unfortunately keeping it planted would have meant I would have plowed into the kerb and probably a wall.

Oh well, at least the gate took more damage than the car

 

[2 live]

well in moments like that mate just go with it. no footwork on any pedal , maybe the brake slightly n go wherever it takes u

 

[Nick Read]

With a FWD car if you lose the back end the only thing you can do is floor it and hope for the best. Takes a bit of practice to get used to it...

 

[Flying Scotsman]

Would be interesting to see how the new MKII ESP would react to such a situation? I would imagine it would kill the power and try to get back in shape using the brakes/ABS? Probably would still hit the gate ...but harder ... LOL! ..... Maybe Ive been heading for this kind of situation but didnt realise it .....naaa ...... ESP cant be that good?!

Has anybody had a smelly cabin situation with their new 172 and managed to get the ESP into operation?

BTW Viceroy, sorry to hear about the damage to your bumper. Sounds like you got a lucky escape!

 

[rockport]

Once the back end is out, you can only try planting your toe until you come to a straight, forcing the weight to the back. However if your finding that your understeering badly towards a kerb as a result like you said... you can only do as suggested by 2live, ease of the gas alittle to support the slide (balance the car).. this has saved me a few times...

Learn from it tho, you got away lucky, respray to the bumper is better then telling your insurer you have rolled your car 5 times.

 

[aledw]

Viceroy, have you considered investing in a track day or airfield day? Hours of oversteer practice and plenty of non-harmful run-off space (usually). Loads of fun too...

 

[Craggy]

yeah, if the power is heading you toward the kerb you can only ease off and give it some opposite lock to catch it,iv been getting a lot of this lately.............

 

[Simon]

Sorry to hear that mate. Ive had this several times on my car and accelerating out of it was not an option. Opposite lock and then get ready to catch the back end trying to go the other way... nightmare.

 

[Dan K]

My cars been oversteering like a pig recently, has anyone else had this as well. I think it may be the road conditions at the moment. Checked all my tyre pressures and filled them properly 2.3 front and 2.1 rear, but it feels liek its skating all over the place, dont know whats going on, doesnt inspire confidence at speed!!! My dad had same problem in his laguna, he was so concerned he stopped thinkning he had a puncture!

 

[CS_Matt]

would someone be kind enough to explain the concepts of over and understeer please

 

[Craggy]

over steer as in lift off is backing off the throttle and the weight of the car shifting causing the back end to go light and flick out, under steer is well, ever gone round a roundabout as as you exit lay the power down and found the car just pulls sideways towards the kerb?

 

[CS_Matt]

gotya cheers

my little 1.4 dont get oversteer lol

 

[telford_mike]

Oversteer does have its uses though, but I have to agree with aledw, you need to be on a track to experiment with it enough to work out whats going on. FWD cars habitually understeer, and this gets worse when the tyres get too hot. The facility to make the car oversteer using steering / throttle / brakes is really useful on a track when you know that youre about to take to the grass unless you can get the damn thing to turn somehow!

I wouldnt recommend mucking about with it on a wet, greasy road though, its just too unpredictable.

Advice from the head instructor at Bedford Autodrome last time we were there was: if the back comes around - floor it and itll straighten out!

I would NOT recommend this approach on the road!

 

[paddymph]

thats what i said, floor it. its all vey well sayin opposite lock etc but for those of us who arent Schumacher this is the procedure:

1) go round bend

2) car starts to misbehave

3) u sh*t it

4) u sh*t it some more

5) hold on for dear life

6) nail it baby!!!

7) learn from your mistakes

All happens in approximately 3.1468439 seconds.

 

[Simon172]

Ok first of all sorry to hear about your crash. This has happened to two of my friends recently in their cars. In the event of understeer - particularly on a wet road - lift off the gas slowly until it stops understeering, sometimes the back will come around (like in your case) and sometimes you have to lift of quicker than you want because youre going to hit a kerb for example. If the back end starts to come around steer into the slide using 10 to 2 so that you know where the wheels are pointing and it is imperitive to keep the power on (dont lift of any more) if anything give it more power or floor it. With this combination of opposite lock and accelerator balance you can balance your car nicely into a drift or get it back into shape.

The only advise i can give you is that you can practise on large (deserted) roundabouts slowly changing your speed and turning in using the "scandinavian flick" method to entice lots of lift of oversteer. Its actually a lot of fun this, but wears down your tyres something cronic. I do this all the time but only when theres no traffic around and its very late at night. If you practise loads and it happens like it has next time itl be second nature and youll catch it hopefully avoiding another accident.

Oversteer occurs on a fwd car by weight shift as said before by someone. As you are accelerating the weight of the car is on the rear wheels and when you go around a corner and lift off the weight is shifted back to the front of the car and the rear wheels have much less grip and slide (hence back coming out).

Hope this helps. Si

 

[viceroy]

Thanks guys.

Ive just spoken to the owner of the gate and he said he has repaired the gate a few times before, but he said normally people end up rolling down in to the ditch.

Ill definately try get some track days sorted through one of the local motoring clubs.

 

[visceral]

I dont think the ESP on the MK2 does bugger all to prevent over or understeer, I have had a dose of both - The understeer by design, the oversteer a complete suprise!

I honestly think the ESP runs about 5 seconds behind what the car is actually doing, traction control seems spot on, but directional is iffy (IMO compared with the A4)

In the Audi I can floor it in the wet in second on a roundabout, you can feel the system take over, and near as damn it hold the choosen line - Do the same in the Clio and it starts to slide - what % of this is due to the Contis I dont know, but its FUN!

 

[RobFenn]

You must of being going very fast to provoke oversteer!

Oversteer is good because you can save yourself, with understeer you just have to hope you dont go too wide and hit a kerb or something. But unless you know what to do it is very scary and so why road cars tend to be set up to understeer. Braking will assist oversteer!

Please dont take simons advicce on practising on deserted roundabouts. You should do some track stuff, in something like an elise or caterham, so controlling a 172 will become a doddle and will allow you to provoke your car at safer speeds.

 

[visceral]

u dont have to go fast Rob, mine did it with my two kids in the back coming home from a day out. Silly bugger slowed on a r/b exit - i backed off, back stepped out - only around 30mph.

 

[viceroy]

I was doing about 30mph as well, and I think with it being wet it was more inclined to lose the rear.

 

[Jonny Disco]

Get some decent tyres. In the wet you are asking for trouble with sh*te rubber on your car. Can make all the difference between understeer and no understeer. So if you dont need to lift off, theres no oversteer to worry about.

I had real probs with one rear tyre that was getting on the bald side. Nearly lost it on every roundabout. Thought I had broken suspension. Id swapped the fronts and backs in low lighting, didnt notice that the very inside fronts were worn from poor tracking. Looked legal on the outside!

 

[Tom]

what? lift off oversteer is fun!!! use it!! if you dont want it dont lift off- simple

your tyres must have been sh*te even with my bald energys that didnt happen!!!

 

[viceroy]

it didn,t ever happen on my 1.4 16v so i seriously doubt it would ever happen on your 1.2

I think you need a pretty powerful fwd to introduce power off oversteer