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Power steering has just sh*t the bed, what are my options?



Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Hi All,

So my power steering has died tonight with all the fluid being out of the system, had to stick about 700-800ml back in to get me home (roughly 5 miles). It's a shame as I've just got it back these past two weeks from AWMotorworks and it was driving mint with it finally being mapped for the low boost setup and a new cambelt etc to boot.

It seems to be leaking from the drivers side rear of the engine bay, is there any common failures that would be around this point? I know the rack is around there so in my mind its probably that but it was a guess while glaring at it with an iPhone torch in the dark. So far I think my options are as follows;

1) Repair the HPAS System, be it a new pipe that might have split or even a new rack. (pump might possibly be damaged too, it was whining badly with me only discovering the fault when I went to turn into a junction and it almost wouldn't turn)

2)Go EPAS/Manual Rack. I kind of grudge doing this as a family member of mine has just scrapped a low miler 1.2 16v I could have robbed all the EPAS off but that's me being a tight bugger, the AC is partially deleted to so would be looking at a PMS Delete kit along with this (Who doesn't love adding to the specs list?)

I Know its early days to call it now, but i'm interested in your opinions. Is it worth repairing the HPAS system or should I finally make the jump to EPAS.

On the note of EPAS/Manual, is finding one of the early DCI racks with the shorter lock to lock ratio virtually impossible now? I know most people just loop the standard rack but if mines gone i'd probably be buying a refurb rack just to loop it out. I wouldn't like to fit a longer rack as I enjoy the point and shoot of the current rack ratio

Sorry for the lengthy post, TIA!
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Everyones gonna say epas so might as well just delete thread now
Is it really that much better over the HPAS to not even consider fixing it? If that's the case i'll look into that instead, I'm all ears!
 

ZachB

ClioSport Club Member
  182
Is it really that much better over the HPAS to not even consider fixing it? If that's the case i'll look into that instead, I'm all ears!
Well better is subjective, its better because its more reliable than hpas on track and it cleans up the bay. Everything else its either same or meh. Im not going to say my opinions because the car suprises me often and not in a good way
 

Daz...

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182 Cup
Mine leaked from that area and it was the rack so I had a decent second hand one fitted. Had to have a new low pressure pipe too.
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Well better is subjective, its better because its more reliable than hpas on track and it cleans up the bay. Everything else its either same or meh. Im not going to say my opinions because the car suprises me often and not in a good way
I have to say when I have the subframe off to sort things out the HPAS pipes and rack are a right annoyance so doing away with them would be a bonus, but If it sacrifices the driving feel then I'm not sure i'd be too keen. I suppose with the eBay loom kit adjuster you could just dial in the EPAS to feel near enough identical to HPAS anyways?

Mine leaked from that area and it was the rack so I had a decent second hand one fitted. Had to have a new low pressure pipe too.
I've had the rack off the frame a few times now so I could do this DIY, its still very much an option to be considered, thanks for the input! :)
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Right, I've investigated it today in the daylight. The bracket for the heatshield near the pinion end of the rack has somehow been bent back and has rubbed its way through the metal part of one of the lines. It seems to go from the pinion then snakes off behind the rack towards the passenger side. I cant quite hand trace it further than the passenger side from underneath the car so no idea where it goes from here.
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Good luck finding a good high pressure line mate

I'd just sack the HPAS off personally, the best thing I've done to my 172 was remove the stupid AC and PAS pump b****cks
I think it might be the return to the reservoir? Looking at the few google images pictures that seem to exist at least anyways. The first 18 inches of the pipe from the rack are metal and the only one like this is the return to reservoir referencing the picture. But like you say, finding one is proving difficult regardless

Once you'd sacked it off did you go EPAS or Manual rack?
 
I think it might be the return to the reservoir? Looking at the few google images pictures that seem to exist at least anyways. The first 18 inches of the pipe from the rack are metal and the only one like this is the return to reservoir referencing the picture. But like you say, finding one is proving difficult regardless

Once you'd sacked it off did you go EPAS or Manual rack?
I've got a dCi 100 rack on there mate and kept it full manual rack

I've got all the bits to go EPAS but other priorities come first. Plus once you're moving and giving it hammer I like the feeling of a manual rack and no assistance
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
I've got a dCi 100 rack on there mate and kept it full manual rack

I've got all the bits to go EPAS but other priorities come first. Plus once you're moving and giving it hammer I like the feeling of a manual rack and no assistance
Now this is a tempting solution doing away with all the feed and return lines and stuff cos god do they seem to snake everywhere and get in the way of everything. However after finding the part number for the dCi rack with the same ratio (77 00 437 055 I believe) these just seem to be non existent online. I guess the most promising way of sourcing one is to spend a day down a breakers yard jacking up every diesel Clio and checking the PN?
 
Now this is a tempting solution doing away with all the feed and return lines and stuff cos god do they seem to snake everywhere and get in the way of everything. However after finding the part number for the dCi rack with the same ratio (77 00 437 055 I believe) these just seem to be non existent online. I guess the most promising way of sourcing one is to spend a day down a breakers yard jacking up every diesel Clio and checking the PN?
All diesel Clios have the same rack mate

Doing away with all that bullshit cleans up the bay so much!!

Before

Screenshot_20190220-175139_Instagram.jpg


After

20200427_152144.jpg
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
All diesel Clios have the same rack mate

Doing away with all that bullshit cleans up the bay so much!!
Well that is good to know, There was a post on here somewhere saying there were two different part numbers and one was 3.5 turns lock to lock and one was 2.75 turns like the sport racks.

As soon as I got the AC off it looked so tempting to crack on with the HPAS too but it was working fine at the time so didn't bother (the AC had died years ago and was in the way of a new shiny oil cooler so off it went). I will admit the bay in yours does look heaps better, god they're a busy bay standard
 
Well that is good to know, There was a post on here somewhere saying there were two different part numbers and one was 3.5 turns lock to lock and one was 2.75 turns like the sport racks.

As soon as I got the AC off it looked so tempting to crack on with the HPAS too but it was working fine at the time so didn't bother (the AC had died years ago and was in the way of a new shiny oil cooler so off it went). I will admit the bay in yours does look heaps better, god they're a busy bay standard
Nah all dCi racks should be 2.5 lock to lock, non sport 1.2-1.6 EPAS racks are 2.75 turns lock to lock same as the 182

dCi are lower lock to lock because of the added front end weight and the columns have more assistance too iirc

@BRT Motorsport sell the Quaife 2.1 lock to lock quickracks at a decent price
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Nah all dCi racks should be 2.5 lock to lock, non sport 1.2-1.6 EPAS racks are 2.75 turns lock to lock same as the 182

dCi are lower lock to lock because of the added front end weight and the columns have more assistance too iirc

@BRT Motorsport sell the Quaife 2.1 lock to lock quickracks at a decent price
With that info you may have just made things a much easier choice for me knowing they're all identical or shorter racks if I decide against fixing the HPAS. Would it be best then to get the full rack and EPAS from a dCi then if they offer more assistance/lower ratio? I'm having a think about it all currently, whilst i'm still in a strop about it breaking in the first place 😂
 
If you can find a dCi for breaking then get the whole lot

You can use a 1.2 column and ECU as most of the time you'll be using an assistance controller, the dCi's are just setup from factory in the ECU to tell it to give more assistance but with the controller you overrule that anyway

You'll need to use your 172/182 track rods ans ends as the non sports are much shorter
 

Rystar

ClioSport Club Member
  2003 Clio 172
Well after trying to get the broken pipe out today the EPAS is becoming ever more tempting...

I've shamelessly stolen this picture from another thread on here (no idea which one, google images found it for me, this is not my car)
IMG_7302.jpg


So, I've partially dropped the subframe (Column UJ bolt out, rear subframe bolts out, gear linkage dropped, dogbone mount out, front subframe bolts hanging on by a few threads, inner wing subframe tie bar things disconnected, little rack heatshield moved out the way as one 10mm is spinning in the subframe) to allow me access to the rack.
Now, I've removed the two smaller (12mm?) ones no bother, straight out.
The one with the Bolt in it in this photo, that's the pipe/hose that has a hole in it which I need to remove/replace (caused by the heatshield bracket rubbing through it)
The one with what looks like a square drive sump bung in it is currently blocking access to the one i need to remove. The pipe has seized inside the union and therefore won't thread out. Destructive means have very nearly crossed my mind but i'm still not 100% on whether i'm going EPAS yet, so any tips on how to remove either the pipe that's seized in the union? (Is heat safe in this area? With the rack boots and now open ports?)
Or does anyone know a way to remove the one I actually need to remove without disturbing the already seized one?
Can anyone tell where this pipe is going just from what port it's going to? Once again its the hose/pipe connecting to the port that has the bolt in it in the above photo

Sorry for the bunch of questions, there's been lots of swearing which has got me thinking there must be an easier way, I just cant fathom it

TIA
 


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