Powerline networking

[Mot!]

Anyone used this tech'?

I currently have a huge extension running up two flights of stairs to my ADSL router (DG834GT) The loss isn't too bad on the extension, I still managed to sync at around 8064kbps (with DGTeam firmware to alter SNR margin)

The router sits behind my TV and has an Xbox, Network printer, NAS and PC connected to it and we utilise wireless with our laptops, I mostly use mine in my room so the strong Wifi signal is advantageous to me when transferring files to my NAS.

We're having the hall stairs and landing decorated next week so the phoneline is going to have to be removed from the skirting up the stairs.
It'd be a shame to staple into the new paint I guess so I was looking into powerline links but I've never used them before.

Can I connect one to the router downstairs and then one up in my bedroom where the router used to be then plug an 8 port switch into that and all will be ok as it would on a normal Ethernet network?

The other thing I'm a little concerned by is the lack of wireless signal upstairs, could I get a wireless access point to extend my currently wireless signal (that will plug into the 8 port switch) would that mimic my current wireless setup and use the same SSID or would I have to set up another?

Hope that all makes sense..completely new technology to me but I'd like to give it a go. (all to lose one cable!)

One last question, which kit would you recommend?
Over xmas the netgear stuff was on offer at silly cheap prices but it's all returned to £80-100ish now

 

[Longy]

Yes this should work - the homeplugs are just a bridge device and treat your powerline as an ethernet cable. Speeds can vary but they will be faster than your broadband speed so you won't notice any slow down.

You can also get a Wireless Access point for upstairs and I have used loads of these: http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=5263 Awesome access points with DD-WRT firmware. I would use a different SSID for up stairs - you will probably find this Access Point covers your whole house anyway making you router one redundant.

 

[DMS]

Why use a different SSID? That'll prevent seamless switching between AP's.
All you need to do is set up another AP with the same SSID on a different channel. If the network topology is the same, most modern network drivers are able to identify that it's the same network and will switch AP's to obtain the best signal without intervention.
Make sure the WEP/WPA/WPA2 keys are the same, or if you're using some other form of 802.1x authentication method just ensure that the configuration is otherwise identical.

 

[Longy]

I've had problems in the past when roaming unless your using a WDS setup.

 

[Mot!]

Great

What's WDS?

I'd like to roam between the two if possible!

 

[DMS]

Wireless Distribution System.

It's basically a wireless network where the AP's act as repeaters. If you're not connected to an AP with a direct connection to an ethernet network for example, your frames get bounced off other AP's until they reach the main AP.
It has its disadvantages though. For a start, your network's throughput will be halved after the first retransmission and you can't usually use dynamically assigned encryption keys.

 

[KDF]

Why use a different SSID? That'll prevent seamless switching between AP's.
All you need to do is set up another AP with the same SSID on a different channel. If the network topology is the same, most modern network drivers are able to identify that it's the same network and will switch AP's to obtain the best signal without intervention.
Make sure the WEP/WPA/WPA2 keys are the same, or if you're using some other form of 802.1x authentication method just ensure that the configuration is otherwise identical.

Exactly what I was going to say. :approve:

As a side note though, I use the powerline adaptors and they are fantastic and have worked flawlessly non-stop for 3-4 months now !

 

[Longy]

I wouldn't worry about WDS (Wireless Distribution System) it's just used to link AP's together.

Just go with the same SSID as above and make sure all the settings are right.

 

[Nick_P]

I just got two home plugs off eBay for 17. Hopefully they work good.

 

[Darren S]

The Netgear Powerline adapters are superb. Our house dates back to 1863 and they work alright in there!

Our wireless router is in the back bedroom and the Macbook and my work's laptop access this wirelessly from downstairs. We have two desktop PCs in the attic and these are connected via the Powerline adapters to the router in the bedroom.

You don't get smooth & steady pings - but that could be a factor of our wiring? Even with that, they are usually <2 or <5 and the occasional 20 or so every ten or so pings - certainly nothing major anyway.

The only thing to be aware of is that they don't work if you plug them into a trailing socket as these usually have filters in them that corrupt or block the signal. They have to be plugged directly into the wall socket, but that's easy enough to do.

Great pieces of kit - well recommended, imo.

D.

 

[KDF]

The only thing to be aware of is that they don't work if you plug them into a trailing socket as these usually have filters in them that corrupt or block the signal. They have to be plugged directly into the wall socket, but that's easy enough to do.

Great pieces of kit - well recommended, imo.

D.

They say they are not supported using extension leads... but they do work just fine although steer clear of surge/filtered ones. I have two and at each end they are plugged into an extension and still get a really fast connection. I would only go with the 200mbit (stupid marketing people, they are 100mbit full duplex) ones by the way if you plan on streaming HD video.

 

[Gareth]

I've got 4x Netgear ones in the house and they work really well.

 

[Mot!]

Can anyone point me at any good deals?
I don't fancy the "no frills" ones that amazon/ebuyer sell but don't want to pay a fortune either!

The other thing is, it will HAVE to be plugged into a surge protected trailing socket..my setup is 3m or so away from the nearest mains socket, everything is plugged into it.
I don't fancy swapping it for a normal trailing socket either (42" pana, Sky HD and so on are plugged into it)

Has anyone got any of them to work with a surge protected trailing socket? Or is this going to be a none starter for me

 

[Darren S]

Can anyone point me at any good deals?
I don't fancy the "no frills" ones that amazon/ebuyer sell but don't want to pay a fortune either!

The other thing is, it will HAVE to be plugged into a surge protected trailing socket..my setup is 3m or so away from the nearest mains socket, everything is plugged into it.
I don't fancy swapping it for a normal trailing socket either (42" pana, Sky HD and so on are plugged into it)

Has anyone got any of them to work with a surge protected trailing socket? Or is this going to be a none starter for me

You might be struglling there, m8.....

D.

 

[McBunny]

just run a network cable to it ?

 

[Mot!]

I don't have a spare power outlet to plug it into, hence the trailing socket.

Already have 3m of electric cable running down my room to my setup, dont' want to add a network cable to that too.

I'll buy some "testers" from argos that can be returned ;D

 

[sn00p]

I've got six (I think) of the comtrend ones that are supplied with the BT vision boxes. I bought all of mine from ebay and paid between about £25 and £30 for a pair. When I bought them prices were all over the shop, some would go for £60, I just picked my auctions carefully, one pair I bought came with the vision box which I chucked away.

They work very well, nice and quick.

 

[Mot!]

What speed are the comtrend's sn00p?

 

[Mot!]

Ahh, I don't think they'll suit what I need as they are actual network devices and obtain their own IP..which would confuse things as it got broke down at the switch.

I think?

 

[sn00p]

What speed are the comtrend's sn00p?

200 megabit.

Mine have never skipped a beat.

 

[sn00p]

Ahh, I don't think they'll suit what I need as they are actual network devices and obtain their own IP..which would confuse things as it got broke down at the switch.

I think?

They have their own IP so you can configure them, but any network packets they see they will bridge over the powerline.

For example, I've got Wifi->Wifi AP->Comtrend EP->Comtrend AP->ADSL Router

Plus 2 airport expresses in the mix too, everything can see everything else on the network.

 

[KDF]

I don't see the need for making them layer 3 TBH. There isn't really much configuration you need on the devices.. simple layer 2 devices would suffice, thats all I use and they are rock solid.

 

[sn00p]

I don't see the need for making them layer 3 TBH. There isn't really much configuration you need on the devices.. simple layer 2 devices would suffice, thats all I use and they are rock solid.

Yeah, I've only used it so that I can see the performance stats on the device itself, but there are various settings on it that you can enable/disable to improve reliability - oh and you can manually change the encryption keys if you really want to.

I guess most people with them will never have seen the admin interface though as they "just work".

 

[Mot!]

Reading up on them as they're cheap for what they are.
Just worried about how the router will deal with 1 I.P coming in but 4 devices being connected at the remote end via a switch.

Can you shed any light?

 

[sn00p]

Just reading up on them as they're cheap for what they are.
Just worried about how the router will deal with 1 I.P coming in but 4 devices being connected at the remote end via a switch.

Can you shed any light?

Ignore the fact it has an IP.

It just acts as a transparent bridge, it will route any packets from the powerline side to the ethernet socket, and it'll route any packets from the ethernet side to the powerline.

 

[Mot!]

cheers sn00p, I'll be investing in the cometrend's then

 

[Nick_P]

I got a brand new orange homeplug kit delivered today, £17 of ebay. Ultra bargain and work great. So if anyone wants any, go on ebay and buy them!

 

[Mot!]

They're only 85mbit..nice price though!

Next question, I've ordered the contrends and an 8 port switch..now I need a wireless access point.

Obviously I don't want to be double routing/NAT/DHCP..all I need is something that will act as a wireless bridge between my laptop and the network.

Should I go for another DG834GT with DGTeam firmware and use either " Wireless Point Mode Bridge" or "Wireless Repeater Mode Bridge"

I can't really get my head around the differences from the description that the router provides.

 

[sn00p]

They're only 85mbit..nice price though!

Next question, I've ordered the contrends and an 8 port switch..now I need a wireless access point.

Obviously I don't want to be double routing/NAT/DHCP..all I need is something that will act as a wireless bridge between my laptop and the network.

Should I go for another DG834GT with DGTeam firmware and use either " Wireless Point Mode Bridge" or "Wireless Repeater Mode Bridge"

I can't really get my head around the differences from the description that the router provides.

You got a link to the documentation for that firmware?

My AP for the laptop is a linksys WRT54G running some sveasoft firmware, can't remember what settings it has and I can't remember its IP address either. The comtrend plugs in one of the ports on the back of the AP as does a mac mini.

 

[Nick_P]

Airport express?

 

[sn00p]

Airport express?

They have audio out (amongst other things) and iTunes can stream music to them.

 

[Nick_P]

oh yeah i know, i got one a while back from cash converters for £20, they didnt know what it was...

I hadnt read the thread and so i was suggesting one.. ha

 

[Mot!]

http://dgteam.ilbello.com/index.php?pid=18

That's the changelog for the DGTeam firmware, best I can find for documentation sn00p.

I just wanna optimize speed and cut out any unnecessary overheads on the network if that makes sense.

 

[sn00p]

http://dgteam.ilbello.com/index.php?pid=18

That's the changelog for the DGTeam firmware, best I can find for documentation sn00p.

I just wanna optimize speed and cut out any unnecessary overheads on the network if that makes sense.

The feature you're after is usually known as "client bridge mode". I've searched for that in combination with dgteam and your router model and it's yielded no results.

Humn.

 

[Longy]

I recommended you a decent AP on my first post that will do what you need.

It runs WRT which is awesome.

 

[Mot!]

I've been having a look at that and the Belkin F5D7132uk

I'm not a big fan of either brand due to past experiences and always stick with netgear if I can.

I may well give the buffalo a whirl though as the power can be bumped up using that WRT firmware, looks really configurable.

Where did you get yours from? Doing all of this on a string if I can so any bargains would be great

 

[Mot!]

I've ended up buying AK's DG834GT off him (cheap cheap)

To use it as an access point do I just give it a static IP, turn off DHCP and NAT?
There should be no routing then, right?

 

[sn00p]

I've ended up buying AK's DG834GT off him (cheap cheap)

To use it as an access point do I just give it a static IP, turn off DHCP and NAT?
There should be no routing then, right?

In theory yes, just plug the comtrend into one of the LAN ports on the back and set all the options on the netgear so that it just acts as a bog standard AP.

Personally I'd have gone for something that could run dd-wrt as those firmwares are excellent for applications like this.

 

[MikeC]

Bringing this back, can anyone recommend a good deal for 200mbps Powerlines?

 

[McBunny]

yeah ebay got 2 comtrend 200's for 32

or
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/179960 maybe