Problems! Now what to do

[Adams_16v]

ok put yourself in this situation. You have a mint clio 16v, and the cam belt snapped whilst driving at about 5mph. More than likely theres been some serious damage caused so the engine will need to be in bits. Now taking into mind you have about £1200-£1300 to spend would you:

1) Have a modified head (by our very own BenR), cams and verniers fitted by Hillpower with a chip to suite and get it fixed at the same time ?

2) Have a 2.0 engine conversion using a Megan bottom end?

3) Try and find a decent willy engine and have that fitted?

As youve probably guessed and some people already know this has happened to me and im now in the situation where im not sure what to do about it. I want more power from my valver and I think now is the perfect time to get it.

Thanks to the people who ive PMd and have helped me out. Any more advice or information would be very much appreciated. My car is ok to be off the road for a month or so.

If anyone has had any of this done and can give me a rough estimate as to how much its going to cost and what work is actually needed for a complete working car that would be great.

Cheers

Craig

 

[BenR]

well, you know which i would go for...LOL

anyway, most people ahve gone the easy 2ltr route......

which is great, BUT its not very individual and soon every 16V is gonna have one, why make a 2nd rate willy when you can have a 1st class valver, which it was intended to be.

But as always, choice is yours and any decision will make a great engine.

 

[SteveJJH]

is a 172 engine possible? ive seen this question asked before but ive never seen a serious knowledgable answer.

 

[BenR]

no.....

engine will probably sit higher, grafting in the ENTIRE loom will be a job from hell, mounts will need to be fabricated or modded, gearbox mightbe longer, driveshafts might not fit hubs......

theoretically, anything can be done.....BUT.....the cost will be high and alot of research will be needed to chaeck EVERYTHING and you aint gonna do it for 1.5 grand......try 5K

 

[Ben H]

I can see where BenR is coming from. Id tune the 1.8 16v lump (but then I would say that, wouldnt I!).

Having now had the privilege of driving a Willy, I can actually say that I prefer a moded 16v to it - thats just my taste. But I wouldnt prefer a standard 16v to it!

The extra power that tuning a 16v gives you is, in my experience, only really there within the typical 16v power band. I quite like that. My 16v is relaxing to drive below 4000rpm when Im not in a hurry (with just a hint of extra torque), but will really open up if you go into the power band. Versus a standard Valver, mine doesnt actually pull away until 5000rpm - when it goes ballistic!

So in a proper drag, a tuned F7P will outpace a standard F7R-engined car. But it definitely isnt as gutsy at low revs and youll probably find that if youre chasing a Willy, itll still have the legs on a tuned 16v say pulling out of a junction at lowish revs in 2nd - where changing into 1st would be pointless.

But I still love the typical 16v floor-it-and-hold-on thrill. I quite like having more and more power to come the higher you rev it! I wouldnt want to change that - its like getting a 5 GT Turbo and sticking a 2.0 NA lump in it (you might more power, but what about it being a "GT Turbo"?).

And thats ultimately why I bought a tuned 16v over a Williams (and becuase it had leather - very important to me!).

 

[Tom]

f7p turbo!!

ok bit on the pricey side!

 

[Adams_16v]

Cheers for that theres a few nice points made there. Especially about the floor it and hold on. I know what you mean. Love the power kicking in at 4k, and that extra kick would be exactly what I want.

I think the head, cams, pulleys and chip would be the best option taking things into consideration with the cam belt snap. I know its hard to say without assessing the damage but do you think Ill have enough cash for what im wanting??? Im waiting for a rough price from Nick Hill so at the moment but im not too sure what to expect!?

 

[Ben H]

Also forgot to mention that you know where your engines been, how its been driven and youve got some comeback if things go pop within a reasonable amount of time if you have it rebuilt.

 

[matt4478]

Sheesh! Sorry to hear that mate... Id defo go the modded 1.8 route myself - seems like everyones getting a 2L conversion at the moment and youd end up with something really special (who else has had head work by the mighty BenR for example? - that sounds like a gay reference, sorry...) Plus, Im willing to bet that the insurance would be cheaper for mods to your current engine, than ripping it out and putting a bigger one in! Also, I get the feeling that itd be less difficult to sell with its original engine in, rather than an unknown 2 litre...

Jusy my 2 pence.

Matt

 

[bondy]

well iam in the process of modding my 1.8 its cammed with a stage 2 chip and a filter and a zorst. its great. need more advice on cams iam your man bondy at. phatnova24@hotmail.com

 

[Nick Read]

Well I wouldnt say 2.0 conversion are exactly common on the roads, youve just got a high concentration of Clio enthusiasts all in one place here who have had the same idea and went for it! In all it must be less than 1% of valvers have had a 2.0 job.

Yeah its nice to have that kick at 4500 revs from the high revving 1.8 but why not have that kick all the way through from low revs like in a 2.0? IMHO wanting to stick with 1.8 just for the limited power band is like wearing shoes that are a size too small for you all day long just so that every now and again you can have the relief of taking them off. Why not just get shoes that fit in the first place! I can understand lots of people like that though, I do myself, in a way.

Id say go 2.0 but you still have the bent valves to sort out so could be expensive. Cams/head in a 1.8 are good but wont exactly set any land speed records Remember I used to have a stage 2 1.8 so I know what it was like, great fun compared to a standard valver but I always felt there needed to be more power there.. If you wanna get serious your starting point has to be 2.0 capacity

 

[Adams_16v]

Hmmm but what about my budget. Its gonna be well over £1500 aint it? Im a poor student on work experience hehe.

Craig

 

[adiclio16v]

im getin a 2.0 he he well got 1 just not in the car yet

adi

 

[clean16v]

jammy b*****d!!make sure we have a race before you do the swap, i have a score to settle

 

[marcus cliogtt]

You can do the 2.0 conversion for less than £1500 it is just finding the bottom end to do it, the garage which did my cambelt and headgasket would fit the bottom end and swap the heads over and refurb my gearbox for £350, so get the new bottom end and get the head work done on yours before it gets fitted on the 2.0 block, do you know what damage has been done to your head yet? There is a few old posts about this somewhere as I was going to go for a 2.0 conversion but I am now saving for the GTT conversion have you thought about that route?

Marcus

 

[Adams_16v]

I spoke to Andy GDI earlier and he said as I was only moving slow hopefully it might just have bent valves. Nick Hill said similar but it is obviously hard to tell due to them not actually seeing the engine to asses the damage.

Im a bit gutted as the engine was running sweet as a nut, thats one of the reasons why im going for some other work too. To ease the pain a little.

Ill have a look through the forums im sure ive seen a few topics in the past.

One of my main problems is that the car is at home and the nearest place is Hill Power which is 50miles away. I was wondering if I could get the head done out of the car etc and maybe get the 2.0 fitted by my regular garage. (family friend) But what about setup and chip etc. I know he couldnt do that sort of thing.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

You need a williams chip they are £150 I think and thats about it, otherwise should be a straight swap on the bottom end, I dont have a clue how easy it would be to take the head off @ home but someone on here must know, get the head looked at decide whether to keep it in the mean time source your 2.0 bottom end and get your local garage to sort it out before it goes in, sounds like the best plan, whereabouts are you based?

 

[marcus cliogtt]

Link:

http://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=21760&SearchPagePosition=1&search=16v+clio&searchMode=allwords&searchIn=Author&forum=6&searchSort=views&ReturnPage=Searchhttp://forum.cliosport.net/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=6&TopicID=21760&SearchPagePosition=1&search=16v+clio&searchMode=allwords&searchIn=Author&forum=6&searchSort=views&ReturnPage=Search

 

[Adams_16v]

Cheers for that iv just spent the last hour reading through previous posts. My heads all over the place at the moment (one one my shoulders), but I think ive learned more in the past 4 days than I have the past 2 years at uni hehe. thanks to everyone on here!

Anyway 2l is a serious option now. Im planning on ringing a few scrappies local for a megane 2.0 16v engine from a 98ish to see whats on offer. There are quite a few round here (chesterfield, derbyshire BTW) so should be ok!

Next I would get my head sorted out BenR style, ready to fit straight onto the 2l bottom end. Id also need uprated cams (for a willy now) and verniers. and a HP williams chip to suite.

This can be done by my regular garage? Hes a small back street garage who usually does a spot on job with everything else hes done for me. (he sorted a snapped cam belt out for me in the past (yes another) with bent valves and alsorts wrong for only £270) so hopefully he will be able to do it and at the right price. Ill give him a call tomorrow, or will it need to be done by a specialist?

But what about the chip. He wont be able to fit this? and what about setup? Will the car be drivable to Hill Power to have the finishing touches (50 miles)?

Also what about any damage from the cam belt snap. This will be part of the head?? so this will need fixing too!

Aaaargh theres so much to think about. Anyone fancy taking my car away with £1500 and bringing it back with a 2.0 conversion for me. Ill pay ya, hehe! No, Im not really that clued up when it comes to engines so im looking forward to hopefully learning a lot more.

Cheers for the help

Craig

 

[marcus cliogtt]

I would say first thing get the head of and suss out the damage done, then go from there, but I reckon you could do it all within budget..........

 

[Adams_16v]

Hmmmm. Iv just rang 35 scrappies and they have the following to offer:

Megane 2.0 16v engines - 0

Megane 1.6 16v engine 30k - £150 (if anyone is interested)

Clio 16v engine from N 80k - £250

Laguna 2.0 16v engine - (£350) he claims its the same as the megane????

Bit sh1te really, autotrader on Thu i think!

 

[Andy GDI]

i have a 16valve engine for sale, can split as well

 

[Adams_16v]

Cheers Andy mate. I managed to get a decent head from someone local! Cars still off the road for now though.

 

[Pete-W]

wish i was able to do something to my sh*tty 1.4rt to get it to go quicker but just not worth it really. love an engine conversion but cant afford it, doh!

 

[Leigh]

Adam

I would listen to Nick Read, he has the expierence of driving a standard valver and also a stage 2 full modded valver.
I on the other hand have a Willy which was standard and i would bet money. That against a modded valver, the willy would hold its own. The power delivery on the willy lump starts lower down and is more constant. besides when the valver is having to be thrashed to get the powerin 4th and 5th gear, the willy will just cruise.
Perfect illistration is on motorways both Nick and wongy would have to change down from 5th to 4th, to get a kick big enogth to over take something. Where as i would just give the willy a little tap on the old accellerator, and the power would be there.
Now the willy has been modded to stage 2, well lets just say that once in 4th or 5th gear, there is no need to change down for more power.
If stage 2 valvers where that quick, why would people want the 2.0 litre conversion ???? Most people who have had stage 2 work done on their valvers, have gone on to have the 2.0 litre conversion, or in Nicks case the turbo. There are a few on here !!
Besides once you have stage 2d a valver, where else is there to go with it modding wise. There aint !!
Get the 2.0 litre and then in the future you have more power to be released as and when funds allow.
This may sound like a lecture, but lets face facts why spend £1600 on a stage 2 conversion and then six months later want the 2.0 litre like most people do and then have to spend another £2000 to get it !! Do the maths !!