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ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Can of worms. Drive them. I love my Trophy, think the fact it can lap quicker than an R27 (which has more power, closer ratios, wider track, wider tyres, far better brakes) shows how effective the suspension changes are. Not had a good enough strop in an R26 to compare, but for me the Trophy's more interactive and fun than the R27. My opinion, not looking for an argument from the 197 owners, I'm happy with mine, your happy with yours!
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
If you've driven the R's, which of those do you prefer.
I think i prefered the Meg tbh
you mean its performance ? or did you mean the R27?
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Then (if I were you) and you prefer the R26, probably between that and the Trophy.
Coils? Why?
S2000
R27 - But I would say that.
Former R27 & Mk1 V6 owner
I've just done this. Chose the R27 as, IMHO, it looks the best (I think the Trophy looks dated because the new shape is out, and that's only gonna wreck the values I think - this is just my opinion) and it was the nicest to drive.
Couldn't live with the looks of the R26, again personal thing, although they are a BARGAIN 2nd hand buy, and I wanted something a bit smaller - the R26 felt big and heavy to me to drive whereas the R27 felt small and nimble.
The engine in the R27 is more 'fun' as well IMHO - the Meg was plenty of lazy torque, and we all know what the 182 engine is like - but the R27 engine is just so keen to rev (although it has to be said, my 11k miler feels a LOT better than the really low miles demos I've driven) now it's well run in. And I like that about it - I realise this might not be to everyones taste. It also pulls well from anywhere around 2.5/3k because of the racey short gears - which makes a good sound
Also, 27 is a higher number than 26, therefore it must be better
Couldn't live with the looks of the R26, again personal thing, although they are a BARGAIN 2nd hand buy, and I wanted something a bit smaller - the R26 felt big and heavy to me to drive whereas the R27 felt small and nimble.
The engine in the R27 is more 'fun' as well IMHO - the Meg was plenty of lazy torque, and we all know what the 182 engine is like - but the R27 engine is just so keen to rev (although it has to be said, my 11k miler feels a LOT better than the really low miles demos I've driven) now it's well run in. And I like that about it - I realise this might not be to everyones taste. It also pulls well from anywhere around 2.5/3k because of the racey short gears - which makes a good sound
Also, 27 is a higher number than 26, therefore it must be better
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Very similar size wise, and only 100kg difference between them. The reason the R26 feels chunkier to drive is the LSD, which is the reason it'll drop any hot hatch on a b-road.I've just done this. Chose the R27 as, IMHO, it looks the best (I think the Trophy looks dated because the new shape is out, and that's only gonna wreck the values I think - this is just my opinion) and it was the nicest to drive.
Couldn't live with the looks of the R26, again personal thing, although they are a BARGAIN 2nd hand buy, and I wanted something a bit smaller - the R26 felt big and heavy to me to drive whereas the R27 felt small and nimble.
The engine in the R27 is more 'fun' as well IMHO - the Meg was plenty of lazy torque, and we all know what the 182 engine is like - but the R27 engine is just so keen to rev (although it has to be said, my 11k miler feels a LOT better than the really low miles demos I've driven) now it's well run in. And I like that about it - I realise this might not be to everyones taste. It also pulls well from anywhere around 2.5/3k because of the racey short gears - which makes a good sound
Also, 27 is a higher number than 26, therefore it must be better
For me it's a no brainer. Need space and want the quicker car=R26
Not too fussed with space but want a nimble quick drive=Trophy
I really don't understand the proliferation of hot hatch buyers so concerned with damped grab handles and refinement. The focus on these attributes is killing hot hatches with weight. IMO the 3 best hot hatches are the 205gti, 306rallye, clio trophy. Hot hatches are meant to be angry, light, flickable cars. Weight is the enemy of performance cars, the 197's are giving worse fuel economy (by 10-20%) for no performance gain.
Former R27 & Mk1 V6 owner
If you just base hot hatches on those things though - surely a 172 Cup is better than a Trophy? I also wanted a comfy car anyway, and one that IMHO looked awesome, and I personally am willing to sacrifice that last 1% of performance for a nicer place to sit. That's just me, and I can understand those people that want the raw hot hatch as well. Also, on the track times bit, I'd argue that despite all the extra weight and stuff, the 197 Cup was able to carry higher corner speeds and still lap only 0.2 seconds off the pinnacle of the 182 range. Surely it stands to reason that after the 197 has been out as long as the 1*2 - it's pinnacle, whatever name it is given, will be a truely epic car - as the base starting point is already very nearly as good as the best the previous model could possibly be?
I didn't need the space anyway, and found the 197 the nicest to drive for me - also the fuel economy on mine seems ok? It'll do 30mpg without a strugggle, and would probably do 35 if I could be bothered to try heh! That's not bad for a relatively heavy car, with short gearing and very nearly 100bhp per NA litre in my book. I'm still in 'shiny new toy' mode at the moment though heh, so the mpg is somewhere round 25 average iirc - 30 was from the drive home - sporadic bootage with some cruising in heavy traffic.
I'd imagine though there will be a 197 Trophy soon - that should be a laugh
I didn't need the space anyway, and found the 197 the nicest to drive for me - also the fuel economy on mine seems ok? It'll do 30mpg without a strugggle, and would probably do 35 if I could be bothered to try heh! That's not bad for a relatively heavy car, with short gearing and very nearly 100bhp per NA litre in my book. I'm still in 'shiny new toy' mode at the moment though heh, so the mpg is somewhere round 25 average iirc - 30 was from the drive home - sporadic bootage with some cruising in heavy traffic.
I'd imagine though there will be a 197 Trophy soon - that should be a laugh
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
No, because a Trophy out handles a Cup. Flawed logic re lap times. A new model, with more power, close ratio box, wider tyres, wider track, better brakes. Shows what weight does. And TBH the reason I didn't bring lap times up is that they aren't that relevant, it's more about the experience. Just adding layer after layer of interference which dulls the experience. We all know that in a straight line the 197 is as quick as the 182, but it still doesn't 'feel' as quick. Weight kills performance (every aspect of performance). As for 30mpg, most people are getting 27mpg.
As for the 197 being as good as a Trophy? No. There are very few objective view points from the general public, too many outside influences. Every article/review of the 197 I've read picks out major failings (lack of feel, lack of subjective speed), whilst the Trophy is acknowledged by many as the pinnacle of hot-hatches, not just Clio's.
Think I've said before, that the 197 is a better all round car, but not the better hot hatch/performance car. Where's the excitement gone? The sweaty palms, the slightly scared feeling when you get to the end of a hard drive?
When the car was first released, I was convinced it was my next car. I love Renault Sports, on my 4th now. Never has a car fallen so far from my expectations.
Good: Looks great, interior, brakes (!!), exhaust note, ride
Bad: Feel-less steering, sounds quicker than it feels, engine lacks that ability to grab hold of the car and really fling it down the road, fuel economy, lack of drama/excitement.
As for the 197 being as good as a Trophy? No. There are very few objective view points from the general public, too many outside influences. Every article/review of the 197 I've read picks out major failings (lack of feel, lack of subjective speed), whilst the Trophy is acknowledged by many as the pinnacle of hot-hatches, not just Clio's.
Think I've said before, that the 197 is a better all round car, but not the better hot hatch/performance car. Where's the excitement gone? The sweaty palms, the slightly scared feeling when you get to the end of a hard drive?
When the car was first released, I was convinced it was my next car. I love Renault Sports, on my 4th now. Never has a car fallen so far from my expectations.
Good: Looks great, interior, brakes (!!), exhaust note, ride
Bad: Feel-less steering, sounds quicker than it feels, engine lacks that ability to grab hold of the car and really fling it down the road, fuel economy, lack of drama/excitement.
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Was not expecting the Trophy to be that good TBH. Drove Steve's 2-3 weeks ago, started looking that day for a car, picked it up on thursday. My dad's considering selling his amv8 for one. Ridiculous little car.
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
I wish, parked next to a dynamique and mine's slightly higher. I defy anyone to go out with someone who knows what they're doing, on a nasty b road and not be blown away. Steve scared me shitless, I nearly asked him to stop!
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
But, as everyone knows, should of bought an s2000 really.
Former R27 & Mk1 V6 owner
Warren seriously, I'm not trying to argue with you heh - the guy asked for peoples personal opinions - entering a debate with everyone on CS who dares suggest the Trophy isn't the only buying option if you can afford it will have you very, very busy
When I suggested the 197 got less than 30mpg a few weeks ago everyone abused me - but the consensus seems to be they take a lot of running in, and once they have a sorta, 5 figure mileage on them - the difference between that and new is quite big in terms of economy and also the way they drive. Lap times were mentioned somewhere in this thread. And also, I never said which was better - I said which I prefered. Then you said the Trophy was better, then later in the same post that the 197 was the better all round car just 5 lines later! Make your mind up Someone in Ali's 'What car' thread thought the R27 was the best out of the box Clio ever!
Dan
When I suggested the 197 got less than 30mpg a few weeks ago everyone abused me - but the consensus seems to be they take a lot of running in, and once they have a sorta, 5 figure mileage on them - the difference between that and new is quite big in terms of economy and also the way they drive. Lap times were mentioned somewhere in this thread. And also, I never said which was better - I said which I prefered. Then you said the Trophy was better, then later in the same post that the 197 was the better all round car just 5 lines later! Make your mind up
Someone in Ali's 'What car' thread thought the R27 was the best out of the box Clio ever!Dan
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Better car, not hot hatch. Each to there own, love the Trophy, but in all honestly I'd swap it in a second for a mk2 Vee, even though I'd enjoy driving it less.
Think I'm turning into a Trophy-bore.
Think I'm turning into a Trophy-bore.
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
i'm not mentioning the word trophy for at least a week!
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
Not allowed to mention it:quiet:
no need, people automatically assume cars need different suspension, the r26 is perfectly set up, hence why it lapped within .02 seconds of a supercharged elise in autocar and within 1/2 sec of an RS6, the elise is quicker 0-60 by around 2 seconds so that means the r26 handled better!
Easy choice, R26, amazing car!
