Rear camber and toe

[YorkshireKyle]

What rear camber and toe has everyone set their rear to on a Clio?

I'm thinking another degree of camber on the rear and straightening the toe completely. Is that stupid or correct?

 

[JamesBryan]

Another degree will be alright and a tiny bit of toe in on the rear. Parallel will make it more lively if that's what you want.

Bit more toe out on the front for me.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Do you get even tyre wear at the rear?

Yours looked pretty stable on track, are you wanting more rotation or better turn in?

 

[Une_Baguette]

I would probably just set the toe to the factory setting which is 20' total toe in for a 182 or 32' on a 172

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Another degree will be alright and a tiny bit of toe in on the rear. Parallel will make it more lively if that's what you want.

Bit more toe out on the front for me.

Never really set any of the arse end up so I have no idea. I'm definitely going to add some camber. I originally thought of adding another -1.5⁰ in the rear and then possibly adding some more in the front

Do you get even tyre wear at the rear?

Yours looked pretty stable on track, are you wanting more rotation or better turn in?

Feels good tbh, but I've not really got much to compare it to so maybe it could always be better

 

[Mr Underhill]

I also have shims, but I can't recall the exact setup - though -1.22 and -1.24 degrees sound familiar. It's not drastically different from your setup, so perhaps they were adjusted to correct it.

I'll check with my friend Dave, who set it up at Croft, to see if he remembers the details.

You can see the setup in action as I'm cornering. That’s a fast corner and the rear OS wheel is only lifting slightly, but the car is so flat. The tyre wear and temperatures are perfectly even, and the grip is incredible. I didn't modify my last car since I didn't think it was necessary, but now I've changed my mind.

It's definitely worth it, if only for the tyre wear benefits.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Mini was parallel rear for a while and it was a bit flighty, for Anglesey last year I added rear toe in for stability assuming it would rain all day then got annoyed as I couldn't get it to rotate on lift off like before.

If yours is already stable at the rear and you have even tyre wear you could try less toe in but keep the camber the same.

You could potentially look at reducing front camber a bit and adding caster if you are getting inner wear on the fronts?

 

[Beauvais Motorsport]

You lose caster and dynamic caster with roll centre correction so as @Touring_Rob said

 

[lee M4RSH]

Mine felt good at Anglesey. Lively but stable enough to control.

I’ll find my printout which I had done recently

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Not getting any daft tyre wear. My plan before making this post was to add some rear camber and to reduce the toe a little bit to around 0°15' using a 15 min shim on either side. But if I added a camber shim and a toe shim wouldn't that f**k everything up?

Thinking of ditching the Braid wheels and 205/50/15 AR1 for my cup racer 2118s and 195/50/15 A048R too

 

[Touring_Rob]

Not getting any daft tyre wear. My plan before making this post was to add some rear camber and to reduce the toe a little bit to around 0°15' using a 15 min shim on either side. But if I added a camber shim and a toe shim wouldn't that f**k everything up?

Thinking of ditching the Braid wheels and 205/50/15 AR1 for my cup racer 2118s and 195/50/15 A048R too

My understanding was that you could add two shims, one for camber, one for toe and that they would stack. Or you could have the rear stub axle machined to do both... but thats a bit tedious.

 

[YorkshireKyle]

My understanding was that you could add two shims, one for camber, one for toe and that they would stack. Or you could have the rear stub axle machined to do both... but thats a bit tedious.

Easier and cheaper to have a couple of shims made

Don't forget who you're talking to here Bobert

 

[Touring_Rob]

Do you have spacers at the rear Kyle?

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Do you have spacers at the rear Kyle?

10mm axle spacers

 

[Touring_Rob]

10mm axle spacers

Instead of getting shims made, get them modified... unless you can already buy shims off the shelf?

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Instead of getting shims made, get them modified... unless you can already buy shims off the shelf?

Yeah you can buy any shim needed off the shelf mate

I've got some really small shims in the garage somewhere but I can't remember what they are or where they are. I got them off Scottish Ben F years ago (be fucked if I know his name on here)

 

[MLB]

I've used shims to bring back the rear toe and they work fine.

Feels quite lively with the whiteline ARB set to hard. Does still eat up the rear outside edge a little bit so I'd say about -2° camber would be perfect.

This was before fitting coilover though so probably will need to revisit the whole thing again once it's all set up properly.

 

[JamesBryan]

I've used shims to bring back the rear toe and they work fine.

Feels quite lively with the whiteline ARB set to hard. Does still eat up the rear outside edge a little bit so I'd say about -2° camber would be perfect.

This was before fitting coilover though so probably will need to revisit the whole thing again once it's all set up properly.

View attachment 1705015

You have got -2 on the rear there practically mate.

60' being a degree, you've got -1°58' so 2' off.

 

[MLB]

You are absolutely right.

I've been looking at three different, old alignment sheets I've got and been up since 4 this morning

To clarify, above was spot on, currently got 1°33' camber on the rear after messing about with the suspension again and that still wears the outside of the rears a bit.

 

[Mr Underhill]

It’s got be a bit more scientific than guessing surely. When my other track 182 went to Rob Boston Racing for Geo setup, he advised on getting the rear beam shimmed.

Conversation went like this. “Go on pure motorsport, buy 3 of these, 3 of those. Come back and I’ll try this.”.

“Then go and do a trackday and then let me know how it feels, then if need be bring it back and I’ll try one of those and 3 of these”

I didn’t bother.

At Croft, Dave who set my geo up at the circuit, checked tyre temps after each session, and made adjustments until it was perfect.

Otherwise you’re just guessing. You might make it worse. Hire a Dave!

 

[JamesBryan]

It’s got be a bit more scientific than guessing surely. When my other track 182 went to Rob Boston Racing for Geo setup, he advised on getting the rear beam shimmed.

Conversation went like this. “Go on pure motorsport, buy 3 of these, 3 of those. Come back and I’ll try this.”.

“Then go and do a trackday and then let me know how it feels, then if need be bring it back and I’ll try one of those and 3 of these”

I didn’t bother.

At Croft, Dave who set my geo up at the circuit, checked tyre temps after each session, and made adjustments until it was perfect.

Otherwise you’re just guessing. You might make it worse. Hire a Dave!

Yeah, tyre temps are the way to go.

 

[Touring_Rob]

What rear camber and toe has everyone set their rear to on a Clio?

I'm thinking another degree of camber on the rear and straightening the toe completely. Is that stupid or correct?

View attachment 1704771

Good job they listed the engine code on the tracking sheet otherwise you might have ended up with too much klamber

 

[ldubl]

I've used shims to bring back the rear toe and they work fine.

Feels quite lively with the whiteline ARB set to hard. Does still eat up the rear outside edge a little bit so I'd say about -2° camber would be perfect.

This was before fitting coilover though so probably will need to revisit the whole thing again once it's all set up properly.

View attachment 1705015

Your rear looks spot on there! (oo er)

Mine is similar, found -2 at the rear with a bit of toe in gives good turn in and stability, without rarb atm

From factory the front camber is much lower than the rear (0.5 v 1.5 +/- loads of tolerance for both) so increasing the rear a bit when increasing the front a lot, seems logical (I haven't read the suspension books etc)

Zero toe was pretty good as well, but I wanted a bit more stability being the daily, so added some toe in back

It’s got be a bit more scientific than guessing surely. When my other track 182 went to Rob Boston Racing for Geo setup, he advised on getting the rear beam shimmed.

Conversation went like this. “Go on pure motorsport, buy 3 of these, 3 of those. Come back and I’ll try this.”.

“Then go and do a trackday and then let me know how it feels, then if need be bring it back and I’ll try one of those and 3 of these”

I didn’t bother.

At Croft, Dave who set my geo up at the circuit, checked tyre temps after each session, and made adjustments until it was perfect.

Otherwise you’re just guessing. You might make it worse. Hire a Dave!

I've gone through the process of getting alignment checked, adding shims, getting re-checked until happy, then get the front toe adjusted.

Adding camber / toe shims (same things, just different orientation if anyone reading this hasn't used them) doesn't always yield the geo settings desired as they interact, so a few adjustments are often required to get to the desired settings.

Using a decent garage who can adjust the shims (lots don't know what they are or how to use them) and get it set up right, does save a lot of time.

Was tempted to get an alignment string kit to do it all myself, but my garage isn't flat, so wouldn't be accurate enough.

A Dave sounds like the ideal solution!

 

[Mr Underhill]

Your rear looks spot on there! (oo er)

Yeah it’s spot on. The tyre wear is so even. I’ve done 5 Trackdays so far on a set of new fronts and partly worn rears. I reckon there’s another 2 left in them.

A better view of it. We did measure it a few months back but I can’t remember what the settings were

 

[YorkshireKyle]

How do you find the A052 Jon?

I thought about a set but I'm tight and I can always get a set of used AR1/A048R for about £200-£250

 

[Mr Underhill]

How do you find the A052 Jon?

I thought about a set but I'm tight and I can always get a set of used AR1/A048R for about £200-£250

They’re arguably the best you can get. Too good for Trackdays tbh. Race series tyres. I’ve got some MRF ZTRs (medium compound) about £150 a corner. I’m testing them tomorrow and hoping they’ll be spot on. I get a bit of loyalty discount on my 52s, but you’re still talking £800 for all corners.

 

[Mr Underhill]

They’re arguably the best you can get. Too good for Trackdays tbh. Race series tyres. I’ve got some MRF ZTRs (medium compound) about £150 a corner. I’m testing them tomorrow and hoping they’ll be spot on. I get a bit of loyalty discount on my 52s, but you’re still talking £800 for all corners.

@Krarl And if you’ll take advice from an old boomer, I’d make sure the car is set up for them before splashing out.

Ask me how I know.