Ride height - what is best?

[Russ_16v]

Going to have a play around with my KW's this weekend/next week, but the rear is set high at the moment - very high, due to the larger wheels that were previously on it. Now im on 15's, can I get peoples suggestions on what ride height would be good? Combined road and track use. I know there should be a rake at the rear, but can anyone give any defenative(sp) front and rear ride heights to start off trying?

 

[Coby.]

The Fletchbus is sitting nicely I think

 

[Gouldy]

You must be silly low at the back to get rear rake.

IIRC you want to have about 15mm front rake for the best set up. If it's a dedicated track car you want to go as low as possible. If it's used on brittish roads I would recommend 45mm front 30mm rear ish.

(Don't make the mistake of measuring rake by looking at the arch gaps)

 

[Jamie86]

You must be silly low at the back to get rear rake.

IIRC you want to have about 15mm front rake for the best set up. If it's a dedicated track car you want to go as low as possible. If it's used on brittish roads I would recommend 45mm front 30mm rear ish.

(Don't make the mistake of measuring rake by looking at the arch gaps)

That's not strictly true

 

[Russ_16v]

Sorry, miss typed there, I meant the rear is very high, so a big rake.

Im lucky in that i have played around with suspension before, so manily measure from rear axle point to floor, and front subframe to floor - NEVER arch gaps

 

[Gouldy]

That's not strictly true

Yes, yes it is true. Air creates lift under a motorsport vehicle. Lift is bad, the less air under the car the better. Bernoulis therum plays a big part in this, long story short tue lower the better.

For proof of this have a look at any rally car that's in a tarmac rally or any brittish touring car. They are all slammed. This is only practicable if the car is a pure track car though. Driving on brittish roads is not possible and is dangerous running very low.

I hope this info has helped.

 

[Dweeb]

subframely scrapingly low

 

[bozothenutter]

but most rally/racecars have bigger inner arches to accomodate suspension travel.....

 

[sideways danny]

Yes, yes it is true. Air creates lift under a motorsport vehicle. Lift is bad, the less air under the car the better. Bernoulis therum plays a big part in this, long story short tue lower the better.

For proof of this have a look at any rally car that's in a tarmac rally or any brittish touring car. They are all slammed. This is only practicable if the car is a pure track car though. Driving on brittish roads is not possible and is dangerous running very low.

I hope this info has helped.

but Clios aren't race cars. They dont have suitable front geometry to go as low as possible without utterly ruining roll center

 

[bozothenutter]

yeah, have you seen the roll centre mod on that japanese site (it was in a posting on here a while ago) might be interesting for the hardcore trackday goers.
basically they moved the balljoint up a bit by hacking and cutting and shutting the suspension arms.



http://www.j-engine.jp/tuning.html

 

[sideways danny]

that would be an MOT fail here sadly

 

[bozothenutter]

even if you'd take the time to make it look oem? they don't have a pattern or something do they?

 

[pure-motorsport]

A full on track car will generally be as low as the regulations allow due to aerodynamics and lowering the centre of gravity as much as possible BUT the roll centre will be raised with different wishbone mounting points and outer ball joint mountings and the body will be modifed to allow sufficient suspension travel. If you are going to keep all of your suspension pickup points as standard have a look at the angle of the wishbone in relation to the ground - if you've gone a long way beyond parallel (ball joint higher than the wishbone bushes) it's too low, your roll centre will be too low giving odd handling and make the car slower on track. Also if you draw an imaginary line through the centre of the top mount, bottom ball joint and back to wishbone bush axis you should always aim to have an angle greater than 90deg, if you haven't your negative camber will reduce in bump. Also make sure you have enough suspension travel for your given spring rate - run out of travel = run out of grip very suddenly!
Setting a car up with rake basically turns the whole underside of the car into a diffuser (although very crude and probably not very effective!) giving you some downforce. Set the back lower than the front and you've got yourself a lovely wing!
Basically don't be tempted to go too low at the front and set the car up with some rake (measured from the underbody to ground) and try it!
Hope this helps.

 

[pure-motorsport]

Sorry I even confused myself! Greater than 90 degrees should read less than 90 degrees!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

that would be an MOT fail here sadly

and would also achieve nothing (except maybe stop the joints necking out)

 

[Russ_16v]

So whats everyones ride heights then? anyones measured? had a bit of a play after work on the ramp but run out of time, needs to be lower, fronts almost right

 

[Russ_16v]

This is the front so far, backs still to high

 

[Gouldy]

mine is silly low, i bought my car with the coilovers already on and they are seized at that height. the v maxx are a horrible ride low and the ride is silly crashy.

im hoping for a 30mm drop, nice and subtle but not low enough to scrape the floor / speed bumps / wheels catching on the arches.

 

[Will.]

Face down, ass up, that's the way we like to f**k.

 

[Gouldy]

how my 182 sits but it will be going up

 

[Gouldy]

Face down, ass up, that's the way we like to f**k.

i see. does this car have front or rear rake?;

 

[Jamie86]

So whats everyones ride heights then? anyones measured? had a bit of a play after work on the ramp but run out of time, needs to be lower, fronts almost right

Will measure mine tomorrow for you

 

[Russ_16v]

Thanks mate

 

[DannyR]

I always believed I had one of the best setups on my Clio and I will continue to run this or tell people too.

Was on FK Konigsports with 25mm spacers on the front and 5mm on the rear. I ran -1.5 degrees on the front and the rears stayed standard camber, next car I will run -1 more on the rear.

I had both wheels the same from the arch, if you fold your fingers over and out them on the tyre your knuckles should touch the inside of the arch. Being the same from the arch it gave a little bit of nose down.

 

[Fred@BTM]

man i'm doubling your bill next time

 

[barnesautos]

Here is mine atm, running same as you Danny at rear, -1 neg camber and 5mm spacers, front are on 20mm a side.

 

[Daz.]

This is the front so far, backs still to high

I see you have man tyres on there

 

[Gouldy]

I always believed I had one of the best setups on my Clio and I will continue to run this or tell people too.

Was on FK Konigsports with 25mm spacers on the front and 5mm on the rear. I ran -1.5 degrees on the front and the rears stayed standard camber, next car I will run -1 more on the rear.

I had both wheels the same from the arch, if you fold your fingers over and out them on the tyre your knuckles should touch the inside of the arch. Being the same from the arch it gave a little bit of nose down.

that has about 30 to 40mm front rake. spacers wont help the handling in any way and if anything the weight of the spacers will be increasing rotating mass. equal arch gaps are a common misconception of "rake" unfortunately thats not how it works.

car looks nice though, im assuming you are going for looks rather than handling with this set up?

 

[Jonny1*2]

i see. does this car have front or rear rake?;

Tool low on the rear. 30-50mm F/R drop, you need some rake mate.

 

[Gouldy]

Tool low on the rear. 30-50mm F/R drop, you need some rake mate.

Wrong, as that car stands there the car has 15mm front rake. (the car does not sit like this any more)

you are making the common mistake of measuring rake from arch gap.

 

[pure-motorsport]

that has about 30 to 40mm front rake. spacers wont help the handling in any way and if anything the weight of the spacers will be increasing rotating mass. equal arch gaps are a common misconception of "rake" unfortunately thats not how it works.

car looks nice though, im assuming you are going for looks rather than handling with this set up?

Actually (theoretically at least) the spacers on the wheels should help overall grip levels especially large ones on the front. Widening the track reduces the weight transfer in a corner, of which a FWD hatchback has in abundance. Anything you can do to reduce this weight transfer on the front should improve overall grip levels and make the car more balanced front to rear. Obvioulsy downsides to spacers are large scrub radius on the front tyres and wheel bearing replacements!

 

[bozothenutter]

yuou guys from Pure should start a class or something, very good at explaining stuff

 

[Sam@NP]

Remember kids, if your car is too low the dampers wont have enough travel and the result is poor handling.

 

[Sir_Dave]

yuou guys from Pure should start a class or something, very good at explaining stuff

Type Colin Satchell into google. Iirc he works at PMS and in the 106/saxo/205 circles he is almost godlike.

If him (& Sandy Brown) are now getting actively involved in Clio's, this is a VERY good thing for us.

 

[Gally]

Remember kids, if your car is too low the dampers wont have enough travel and the result is poor handling.

That kind of info is wasted in here Samuel. x

 

[Gouldy]

Remember kids, if your car is too low the dampers wont have enough travel and the result is poor handling.

hence why my seized v maxx set up is dangerous and handles shocking

 

[Sam@NP]

That kind of info is wasted in here Samuel. x

Trophy and FRP owners know a thing or two about damper travel

 

[Gouldy]

is that because they are both doing a 4 x 4 impression lol?

 

[Sir_Dave]

is that because they are both doing a 4 x 4 impression lol?

Yup.

FYI, these are three of the best handling FWD cars ever:

 

[Sam@NP]

but they aint low like a touring car bruv.