Road tyres that will stand up to a track day?

[Illacious]

Hi all, thought I'd make my first post. I'm about to replace the ditchfinders on my 172 cup (standard). Mixed brand and tread depth on the rear! Absolutely no confidence in the wet.

It's mainly for road use. I don't commute, I bought the car for the B roads, bored of a heavy BMW 330. I want to be able to enjoy it on wet as well as dry roads without it feeling dangerous like it does now. But I'd also like them to stand up to one or two track days this summer. Ideally something with a hard(er) side wall so the outside edge doesn't get ruined and waste a set of tyres. Unfortunately not in a position to get 2 sets of wheels.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Advikaz]

Pilot exalto 3's get my vote.

 

[imprezaworks]

How many miles are you doing in the car?

I will be opting for the new nankang ns2r In soft as my car gets used for trackdays only. Well with the occasional Sunday blast. Imo might be worth looking at those tyres but in the harder (tread wear 180) compound.

 

[car.crash]

I await the idiot to promote uniroyal rainsports

 

[Illacious]

limited mileage really, only 2-3k tops before I have to sell up in summer.

Interesting I was actually rather impressed with Nankang NS2Rs I had on the old beemer. Stood up bloody well to track day abuse. I had the hard compound 180 you recommended.

But I had a second set of tyres with uniroyal rain sports as if by coincidence! They were fine as a road tyre, but absolutely fell apart on track. Literally chunks falling out of them.

I'm hesitant of comparing tyre behaviour on a 1.7 tonne barge with a nice lightweight cup though. Imprezzaworks I don't suppose you've got any experience of the NS2Rs in the wet? I'm under the impression they'd be too much for a wet road? Although iirc they are road legal.

 

[imprezaworks]

I've not got a set mate, yet. Just need to juggle some finances after my recent car purchase. Anyway.

I will probably do the same mileage as you. Initially I was going to stick with 16's, then went to 15's as a second set with 888's (used) on. On a wet Oulton I used my 16's which have conti sport 2's, they were 'ok'. I swapped to 888's early in the morning when it was still raining. I actually found them good but when it dried it was night and day, miles better. So anyway I decided to go back to plan a and my choices were either the rsr or the nankangs. I will be opting for the latter in the 120 soft compound. Tyre leaders seem the best on price in the size I want, 205/45/16 at £240.

 

[GrahamS]

I used to have pirelli p zeros which I did about 2 hours of track time on and they stood up well to it. It wasn't all at once though, twenty minutes here and there. Took a lap or two to heat up, didn't self distruct and gave good grip. On the road they were very good too. Paid about £35 a corner for a 6mm+ part worn.

 

[Illacious]

Can't argue with £240. With low mileage I do I don't really see wear as a problem. More the concern if the michelins or other similar road tyres have softer sidewalls then waste a set of tyres after a track day.

I guess it's the trade off - soft tyre walls and potentially kill good michelins on track - or somehting more track focussed and just be bloody careful in the wet.

So people put 205 width on the standard wheels? Is that as more tyres are available or a handling thing?

 

[imprezaworks]

Imo mate just get a more track focused tyre. You will be pissing in the wind with road tyres.

 

[Illacious]

Sounds like a good idea. might even go for the 120 soft compound. I'm guessing they will perform no worse in the wet than the 180 compound.

 

[imprezaworks]

I'm no expert mate. They will wear quicker obviously but with the mileage you do (and me) I'd opt for the 120. Are you staying 16?

 

[Illacious]

Yes I haven't got any cash to throw at it, just want one decent set of tyres to do 2-3k miles including a track day or two until summer.

I can't find 195 width in the nankang NS2Rs, so just went ahead and bought the 205s. Have a track day coming up at Bedford on Saturday 4th April so let's hope they perform well!

Appreciate all the advice

 

[Steven103]

Soft compounds generate more heat per amount of force you put in AND the compound enters it's optimum range at a lower temperature. This means a soft tyre can be used in comparatively colder and damper track conditions than a harder compound until the tyre can no longer evaporate water. If you're lucky you even get a "perfect balance" so to speak where there is enough heat to evaporate water but enough water to stop the tyres wearing too quickly but this is getting fairly specific and fairly racey.

So yes, a softer tyre will cope better in the wet. BUT lets not forget here that all "track day" tyres are still very hard & you must have watched enough F1 to notice that drivers have to be pushing pretty hard in damp conditions to maintain enough temperature. On top of that a nice & warm soft tyre can at best only evaporate very sparse water, it can't disperse puddles or standing water like a road tyre with specifically designed channels or "grooves" can.

I suppose what I really mean is this: a good racing driver could make soft semi slicks work in a very surprising amount of dampness, but let tyre temperature drop and your level of grip will fall off a cliff. That's not really a recipe for safe & fun track days IMO!

Ask yourself this: what would you do if you turned up to a £150 track day and it's pouring down? Would you ever be happy to say "oh well" and just go home because you bought the fastest dry semi slick you could find? If you only do July to August then R888 etc seem a safe bet. If you still want to be able to drive in damp track conditions but are prepared to be very responsible then NS2R etc could be a good compromise. If you want to be as safe as possible & drive whatever the weather then it's road tyres (with the potential added cost of replacement)

Also don't forget you can extend the life of tyres by swapping fronts to rears & lefts to rights (so the worn outer shoulder becomes the inner shoulder). To minimise risk of punctures or wearing through to the cord, this should be done mid-life whilst the outside should still has some life in it (as a potential inside shoulder). Front to rear & left to right is free (talking mostly about conventional road tyres here as track day ones will be heavily "one direction") but remember there's a fitting & balancing cost when swapping inside to outside.

EDIT: LOL. How dare you make a decision when I'm mid-post. I think that's the right choice. They're a halfway house which seems to suit your reasonable-weather-only aspirations.

 

[imprezaworks]

Great reply.

I

 

[bozothenutter]

I did my first trackday on Michelin PS3's just kept an eye on the pressures and they were fine!
Then again I'm not setting the world on fire with laptimes, just having fun and learning the track.

PS3's are amazing on the road and in the wet though.....they don't like temps below about 3c though.

 

[JamesBryan]

Pilot Sport 3's or AD08R's.

Whatever you get, look for the XL ones. They're extra load for a stiffer sidewall.

On track run the AD08R's at 32-34psi hot or the PS3's about the same if not a bit higher to stop them rolling onto the sidewall.

 

[imprezaworks]

People seem to really rate the ps3's

 

[bozothenutter]

Pilot Sport 3's or AD08R's.

Whatever you get, look for the XL ones. They're extra load for a stiffer sidewall.

On track run the AD08R's at 32-34psi hot or the PS3's about the same if not a bit higher to stop them rolling onto the sidewall.

Does the extra stiffness make a big difference?
I was dithering 'tween the two and then went for the load Renault reccomended (83)

 

[JamesBryan]

Does the extra stiffness make a big difference?
I was dithering 'tween the two and then went for the load Renault reccomended (83)

Yes, on track it does. On the road you just get a bit more road noise.

 

[roystinho]

Interesting thread. I was going to go for a new set of AD08rs but they're coming in at over £400.
Seen the Nankang NS-2R and at £60 that makes the above look quite expensive
Or I was going to go PS3s...
Anyone experience of comparing these? I've got PS3s on and they feel good, but hope to do a few more track days this year so was thinking about something a little more track biased. If only Supersports came in this size...

 

[RS Charlie]

PS3s are a great tyre for most conditions.

I shall report on the Nankang NS-2Rs when I fit them to the Escort. That car is currently on Toyo T1-Ss.

However to go against the grain I was never too keen on Toyo R888s. On the road they are a superb tyre. They warm up quickly, grip the road like a child holding onto his mother's arm, and are not too bad in damp conditions either! However, they are a little noisy.

On the track they are a little different. Going around the 'Ring GP circuit in a stock powered Pug 205 GTi they were initially awesome on the first few laps. However they then overheated, and initially I thought I had a flat tyre! I pulled into the pits, tried dicking around with preasures to no avail. To say I was gutted was an understatement. I even followed the pressure guidelines before hitting the track!

To be fair it was quite warm, but I would not say that I drive a car quite as hard as someone people (Christ, my friend is brutal in comparison to me on a track (I try to carry speed through the corners as opposed to slamming on the anchors and then flooring it again, but I have much to learn!)).

However, a few people I know of have noticed the same thing, and blame the tyre construction including a motorsport company, who rate the Dunlop DZOG 3s far much more (they seem to cool down better than the Toyos which IME seem to stay off colour for a while once overheating, not by simply taking it easy on a lap as it said can be done with the Dunlops. Maybe we all suck at driving .

I'll come back about the NS-2Rs upon fitting them.

 

[Illacious]

Steven103 I apologise for making a decision mid reply! Great response though. Like you say the time of year is a big factor. I have the cup from now till July, so I can enjoy it when the weather is good and take it easy if it's pouring. I did what you said with my old beemer on NS2Rs, managing an amazing 5 track days before swapping left to right with plenty of tread left. I was never scared in the wet with them either.

That said there must be a reason why so many people recommend the PS3s, and I think if I were doing any significant mileage on the road I'd be a lot more inclined to go with them as a good all round tyre.

Interesting Jamesbryan you say about the XL AD08Rs, that what kind of what I was getting at with my question. Worried about a soft side wall wasting a set of good road tyres. Anyway's bought the NS2Rs now! Looking forward to Bedford next week...

 

[imprezaworks]

Where did you get the tyres from?

 

[Illacious]

tyre leaders as recommended. couldn't find cheaper (in my quick and impatient search). Anything will be better than what's on it at the moment, but hoping for something awesome with a clio cup in the summer with soft tyres on.

 

[imprezaworks]

Interesting. When did you order them, the other day?

 

[Illacious]

Ordered 23rd March. Hopefully to arrive before the weekend!

 

[dangerous dave]

I think more important that anything is some tuition...

@car.crash

 

[TRH_Racing]

if its anything

I've spent a whole day at snetterton on pilot sport three's .. and i was really impressed
drove there, did 140 miles on track and 120 miles home!