Rough running / no power help!!!

[KMW]

Took car out yesterday for a blast, all was going fine but then it suddenly lost all power, wouldnt idle and felt like it was running on 3 cylinders, orange engine light was flashing too.
I've checked all plug leads and its firing on all four so not a lead / plug.
Went and bought a MAP sensor from ECP but this hasn't made a difference so £55.00 wasted, ordered a catalytic converter sensor but won't get it until tomorrow. I don't think it's mechanical ie: valves, piston etc. car struggles to pull away in first and is popping banging but seems to pull fine higher up the revs, also has been very very thirsty on the fuel since I bought it a month or so. Any ideas what else could be causing this, could it be electrical or jumped a tooth on timing belt?
Track day booked at end of month and really want to try the Clio out.....

 

[NorthloopCup]

Have you checked the injectors? Could well be lambda sensor if it's thirsty on fuel though.

 

[KMW]

No, how'd I go about doing this?

 

[bloke]

it's an injector. get it plugged in

 

[danowen1985]

Yeah try changing the two o2 sensors around as they are both the same pre cat and post cat, if the o2 sensor pre cat is faulty though it will throw the fuel and air readings out and it will run terribly like you say!! So get under the car unbolt them both and switch them around.

 

[bloke]

or you could try swapping your wheels around as well.

 

[NorthloopCup]

No, how'd I go about doing this?

Measure the resistance of all 4 injectors. If there's one that's lower than the rest, that's the knackered one.

 

[KMW]

Cheers guys really helpful stuff, I'll get involved in it this afternoon and see if any of these suggestions help.
Might skip the wheel swapping bit tho....
It's been terrible on fuel, like 20mpg at best almost as bad as my V10 M5!
So hopefully this gets better as well once it's running right again.

 

[PP200t]

im sure mpg would be affected by the lambda sensor being duff, def worth swapping them about.

 

[..Jack..]

Any EML or codes?

 

[letsturboit]

Coil pencils?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Coil pencils?

Not on a Clio 182 mate, they have a coilpack. 197 and Meg 225 had coil on plug.

 

[KMW]

Right I pulled the injectors out and they're all working fine (real bugger to get back in)! Then I changed the spark plugs for new NGK jobs as the ones that were in were a terrible state and had all different heights and one was non existent but still no change. I also swapped the MAP sensor out for original one as it made no difference previously.
I've a new lambda to pick up in morning and will swap out the pre-cat one first fingers crossed that fixes it, If not could it be a coil or could the catalytic converter itself be collapsed, would swapping it out for a cat replacement pipe be a good idea or is it better to buy one of those cheap jobs off eBay?
Still got an annoying oil leak from somewhere on passenger side of engine as well.

 

[bloke]

it's an injector, get it plugged in...oh, hold on i already said that and northloopcup even said to measure the resistance of them but hey ignore us and carry on buying parts for the car:wink:

 

[KMW]

it's an injector, get it plugged in...oh, hold on i already said that and northloopcup even said to measure the resistance of them but hey ignore us and carry on buying parts for the car:wink:

I checked resistance of injectors and they were all same so I took them out to double check and they're all spraying fine.

 

[bloke]

spraying on cranking doesn't mean anything with an injector. what resistance did the read and did you use a decent meter on them?

 

[KMW]

Used a Fluke, can't remember readings but they were all the same so presume they're fine or all gone on the blink?

 

[bloke]

can assume resistance measures ok then, should be around 15 ohms. still other things to take into account with injectors though, injector on time, shut off voltage spike etc.

also if they were a pain to get back in what were the seals like? bit of rubber grease and they should go in easy. dicky seal can make one run rough as hell and not throw a management light. excessive consumption can be lambda sensor but with the rough tickover i'm still saying injector. how does exhaust smell?

still needs to be plugged in though.

 

[KMW]

I used a small amount of grease on o-rings after it wouldn't fit back in, once greased up went in much easier.
It really is bad on fuel and used half a tank to cover 20miles yesterday!
I've bought the lambda and can return the MAP sensor so not too much out of pocket so far. Failing that I'll get it plugged in at a garage but just don't have the time with work commitments during the day.
Cheers for all the advice.

 

[KMW]

Are these any good?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151568645207

 

[bloke]

christ that's bad!! exhaust must stink. quick one to try, pull the oil filler and have a sniff to see if it smells of petrol. that's a hell of a lot of fuel to get through in such a short distance. i had a rough 182 in that was running about 11% with a duff lambda and that was nowhere near as bad on fuel.

 

[KMW]

Exhaust reeks of unburnt fuel that's why I'm thinking lambda? As I said my V10's better on the juice! LOL

 

[bloke]

be wary of generic obd readers as they can miss so many things, can be handy for quick checks like lambda sensors but personally wouldn't trust one as far as i could throw it. if you want to buy something like launch is worth getting, over £100 easy enough but they are pretty good value and think even the basic ones can do abs etc as well?

never had a lambda give a flashing light though, always been solid light.

 

[ScottL]

never had a lambda give a flashing light though, always been solid light.

Fully agree with this, flashing EML has always been a faulty injector. mine has a solid one at the moment which is a fauly lambada

99% thats its a injector fault

 

[MicKPM]

A flashing MIL is what we call a Level 2 fault which means it has potential to damage the CAT. Normally due to an injector(s) but can also be caused by poor ignition due to faulty lead(s).

Your best bet is to take the car to somewhere armed with CLIP. From here they can run a proper misfire detection test and tell you exactly what cylinder is at fault and scope the H02's outputs.. Then, if they're any good at their job, they'll be able to quickly identify the fault.

We charge £40+VAT for the hours work

 

[KMW]

A flashing MIL is what we call a Level 2 fault which means it has potential to damage the CAT. Normally due to an injector(s) but can also be caused by poor ignition due to faulty lead(s).

Your best bet is to take the car to somewhere armed with CLIP. From here they can run a proper misfire detection test and tell you exactly what cylinder is at fault and scope the H02's outputs.. Then, if they're any good at their job, they'll be able to quickly identify the fault.

We charge £40+VAT for the hours work

Thanks for advice, I'm in Aberbeen so a bit far away im afraid.

 

[Diagro]

Change that Lambda and see what happens.

When i bought my 172, i managed 89 miles to 10 gallons.
Was caused by my timing being out badly

 

[danowen1985]

I bet its the o2 sensor/s like I said above swap them around and see if it improves, they control the air/fuel ratio by using the readings from a lot of other sensors on the engine so when the pre cat one of the o2 sensors develops a fault it can cause all sorts of issues......hesitation when accelerating, misfiring, excessive fuel consumption, unburnt fuel smell from exhaust, lots of smoke from exhaust etc etc

 

[KMW]

Right wee update, I had ordered a new lambda sensor already so swapped this out with the pre-cat one tonight and it made no difference at all, also swapped the after cat one around with the one that was in the pre-cat to begin with but again no difference. Left new one in as wires at connecter on old sensor had been in contact with exhaust and were a bit melted.
As I couldn't remember what the resistance was on the injectors when I first checked I measured them again tonight and they read 14.9, 15.0, 15.0 & 15.1 ohms so I'm guessing they're all ok? So can rule them out.
The MAP sensor was swapped for a new one which has made no difference.
So what next to check, coil pack? Plug leads?
I fitted new NGK plugs at weekend as original ones were a right state.
I know best thing would be to get it into a garage with CLIP but I'm snowed under at work during the day and away to Germany next week so pushed for time as I've a track day booked at the tail end of the month.
Buy a new coil and try that?

 

[KMW]

Got a mechanic mate with a Snap-on Solus scanner coming to have a look at car, hopefully this can point me in the right direction.

 

[KMW]

Latest:
Tried a brand new coil pack in it tonight - exactly the bloody same!
Plug leads?
Can these jump a notch on the timing belt?
TDC sensor?
Are my injectors messed up being 14.9 15 15 15.1ohms?

 

[KMW]

Now swapped crank angle sensor too and still no difference, I'm thinking its the dephaser / timing belt has jumped as its clearly not electrical.
Could a collapsed cat cause these issues?
I know getting it on a Renault Clip would be best but I've had no time during work hours to do anything with car.
Any suggestions as I'm f'off with this now!

 

[davidbelldb]

Hi mate, done a fair bit of searching and stumbled upon this thread. I'm having very similar problems to yourself and its getting to me now too! Very rough idle and is generally missing power all through except at high end.. Had it in at Renault main dealer as well as other 'specialists' and they can't find the issue either. When it developed it's missfire, it sometimes gave a flashing EML now and then but this has just recently changed to a solid EML.

A List of things I've changed is below.

Plugs - NGK's.
Coil Pack.
Leads.
Crank Sensor.
Coolant Temp Sensor.
MAP Sensor.
Air Temp Sensor.
Engine Thermostat.
Injectors.
2x Lambda (as per MOT failed emissions & recent specialist advice).
Checked Engine Earthing.
Checked for exhaust blowing elsewhere by covering tailpipes.
Checked for air leaks on manifold by covering throttle body etc.

Ran a snap-on in it this evening and after some investigation, three of the wheel speeds are detecting 0.18 at a standstill and is also is showing a fault of
'67 Injection, Multiplexed Information Error'.
I've been told this could be due to a faulty ABS control unit playing up but not really sure I understand?

It seems to gradually be getting worse and especially after a long run it's so bad it barely ticks over / I struggle to pull away.

Could it be a cat issue? I have a new one available to fit but I'm going to look into unplugging the pre lambda first as well as looking into this myserious ABS unit. Doesn't give me confidence with it being located right next to / under the windscreen washer bottle area...!

Let me know if you have any luck and I will keep you posted.

Dave.

 

[bloke]

Checked for air leaks on manifold by covering throttle body etc.

that won't show up an air leak.

 

[davidbelldb]

Also had some spray on it as well, checked for resistance across all injector connectors and they are all sitting at 10 ohms. Am I right in thinking this should be much closer to 15 ohms?

 

[KMW]

My injectors were all reading 14.9 - 15.1
I've no idea what's up with it but think its dephaser/ timing belt related?

 

[NorthloopCup]

My injectors were all reading 14.9 - 15.1
I've no idea what's up with it but think its dephaser/ timing belt related?

I doubt it's that tbh, but prepared to be proven wrong. I take it the snap on scanner brought nothing up? If the cat was collapsed it would be putting up codes for a lambda sensor fault like they do when decatted.
Eml light still on and flashing?

 

[woofdog]

That amount of fuel use is insane... surely a leak..?? What about where the fuel line joins up to the fuel rail or something daft like that..?? Assuming you have checked all that stuff..?

 

[George Kime]

im having these issues also, going to plug my car into live texa diagnostics on saturday so i will tell you what sensors etc are reading bizzare.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Do a compression check.