RS2 inlet

[Glos182]

I honestly can't believe how people seem to be blown away by an extra 10bhp lol, is it even noticable?

I think part of this is down to the map, where i was used to a 5k little kick which was alright, but then after getting the RS2 and i get good noticeable power very low in the rev range, means i can move quickly, have fun, without having to always go into the 5k+ rev range. However i do miss 35-42 mpg, considering i just do mainly motorway driving and struggle to get over 31mpg is a downside to it. Others say they get 42 MPG with the RS2, in my head I'm thinking they must drive at lorry speeds

If i didn't use the car as a daily to get to work, and it was just for track/toy i would of probably tried to go down a forced induction route. But as a daily i was just too scared lol.

Hopefully one day, one of the Gloucester SC boys will take me out for a spin!

 

[Nick172Cup]

I think part of this is down to the map, where i was used to a 5k little kick which was alright, but then after getting the RS2 and i get good noticeable power very low in the rev range, means i can move quickly, have fun, without having to always go into the 5k+ rev range. However i do miss 35-42 mpg, considering i just do mainly motorway driving and struggle to get over 31mpg is a downside to it. Others say they get 42 MPG with the RS2, in my head I'm thinking they must drive at lorry speeds

If i didn't use the car as a daily to get to work, and it was just for track/toy i would of probably tried to go down a forced induction route. But as a daily i was just too scared lol.

Hopefully one day, one of the Gloucester SC boys will take me out for a spin!

You only get 31mpg on motorways? That's what I get with mixed driving on a and b roads so something's not right there matey!

 

[Nick172Cup]

Also I just want to point out, the difference in power/torque between ITB's and the RS-2 may look like big but in reality from my experience on track the extra 10bhp/15lb/ft of torque made no difference at all. People can scream the high hills buy frankly I don't care, it is what it is...

Ollie82. is still on the standard inlet manifold and keeps with me quite happily, and we both have hunted and passed ITB'd cars that have more horsepower! The upside in know people that'll kick our arses in a standard car!

So out of all of that as long as you don't get romped in a straight line by a standard Clio and your happy with the way the powers delivered then just be happy. If you want to go mega quick in a Clio turbo/super charge your car or buy something quicker in the long run.

 

[gez 172]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAhS3xPHsrU

 

[Glos182]

Yeah it suxs Nick lol, I'm gonna get the gf to drive my car to work soon (5 mile round trip) and use her golf gti to get to work. £20 = 100 miles near enough. I remember when a 10'er was 100 miles lol.

 

[Sir_Dave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAhS3xPHsrU

lol, welcome to 5 years ago.

That was 'Jesus' with GDi's ITB PH1 iirc.

 

[gez 172]

sounds nice! you can see the std cup had an advantage low down, until the itb's start breathing and train past. lovley ph1 that

 

[Silent_Scone]

lol GDI car from 5 years ago.. that's a wonderful comparison

 

[Andyman]

I honestly can't believe how people seem to be blown away by an extra 10bhp lol, is it even noticable?

I've been out in a Sc'd 172 that has atleast 90bhp more than mine and because of the way the power was delivered (very smooth mapping by paul @ RST) it didnt make a massive fuss just pulled progressively throughout the range. I can't imagine an extra 10-15bhp being that noticable.


I was speaking to a friend who likes turbo'ing clio's who reckons I can get around 260BHP for not much over £2000, lets say £2500 once you've upgraded brakes/clutch. I know where my money will be going, I also think with some nice smooth mapping from Paul @ Rs tuning it wont be much of a handful to drive. Boost FTW

10bhp will not set the world alight but if its right across the rev range with matching torque then it would be very much noticeable.

Also, not everyone wants 3-400 bhp in their road car. Cams, ITB's, superchargers, turbo's etc all have their place depending on what you want, how you use your car etc

Cams and itb's might be less bang for your buck, but then your causing less stress on the engine / box, better mpg and supposedly an all round more reliable car.


Your right about the 260 turbo thing for 2k. Problem is, how long will it last before it goes pop on stock internals..? then if it does your 2k turbo build starts to look like 4k

 

[Fred@BTM]

^what's the point if you're about as talented at driving as Maureen from driving school?

650bhp evo at donnington had to move out of the way of Sam..................................................... in a STANDARD trophy with STANDARD brakes (just on R888's)

 

[Silent_Scone]

LOL.

 

[Andyman]

^what's the point if you're about as talented at driving as Maureen from driving school?

650bhp evo at donnington had to move out of the way of Sam..................................................... in a STANDARD trophy with STANDARD brakes (just on R888's)

What would his chances be on a quarter mile....

Track driving just sorts out the weak from the brave or the talented from the not so talented

 

[Fred@BTM]

that's an american sport

 

[not normal dan]

that's an american sport

cracking reply haha

 

[Tom@JMS]

Sure...

Apart from the fact my car only made 179bhp/143ft/lb, the whole experience was a nightmare start to finish. car not being ready for mapping sessions even with plenty of notice given, car being up there for weeks at a time etc. nothing happened until i threatened to take it elsewhere to be fixed. the whole top of the engine needed rebuilding for some reason (The reason i got was swarf into the engine when they fitted the manifold), my brakes went due to a servo leak on the manifold.

And after all that i got charged over £500 to return the engine back to its normal state.

Not exactly fair if I am honest Dean.

Yes we caused a compression issue which we resolved no questions asked (piece of aluminum swarf on the valve seat) - full head off, cambelt, coolant, full aux kit completely free of charge. At no point was this hidden from you.

I collected and delivered the car from our workshop too your address (about 2 hours each way) on a trailer on two separate occasions; again no questions asked, no costs incurred; all part of the service.

The £500.00 it 'cost' you to return the car to standard was actually deducted from a refund; in other words I wrote you a cheque for over £1200.00 IIRC and gave your car back to you completely standard car, retaining the now second hand RS2. You agreed to this.

I have no idea which servo issue you are referring to, I suspect the usual suspects have been whispering in your ear; do you even know what the servo is?

If you had any issues with the service etc you should speak to me about it, not just resort to moaning on a forum.

RS2 vs ITBS etc; argument old as time, input from many that have never owned either.



The RS2 IS a comprised product, if you look at the packaging in the car etc it has a serious battle on it's hands to produce any significant output increase due to the massively shortened runner lengths and potentiality lower gas speed; especially over ITBs. You would be foolish to make a direct comparison between the two especially as it is approaching half the price of a similar specced ITB package fully fitted, mapped & accessories such as the engine mounts.

The average results from the group buy for instance range for 181bhp to 191bhp, with the same linear torque character on all. There is a certain amount we can do to improve these numbers but sometimes that is simply the nature of such a mass produced car.

 

[Tom@JMS]

^what's the point if you're about as talented at driving as Maureen from driving school?

650bhp evo at donnington had to move out of the way of Sam..................................................... in a STANDARD trophy with STANDARD brakes (just on R888's)

Can't agree more.

 

[doza28]

This thread caught my eye this morning as i am looking to modify my Phs 1`s induction in some way. I was either considering the K-tec Itbs as i live near them, or the rs2 inlet.


Having read through i was almost at the point of asking peoples opinions on these but like so many threads on here, this one has once again become a `hammering` session for the usual companies. Its a wonder the traders apart from what i as a forum novice see as a `chosen` few come on here. Never have i come across such a fickle bunch of moaners who seem to be automatically convinced that what they hear is true. I also cant help but think that `brainwashing` by the `chosen` few seems highly likely as a lot of people who comment have never even had work done by the slated tuners.

And i thought the ford scene was bad.....

So back to the point of the thread..... has anyone got any graphes to see? The reason I ask is I was under the impression the Phase 1 has slightly bigger exhaust ports and may respond better to such mods...

 

[midge]

The rs2 shouldn't be seen as tuning alternative to itb's, it should be seen as an alternative to cams IMO. ITBS are far superior, but a fair bit more expensive, where as cams are gonna be around the same money and make around the power.

 

[Laine_16v]

Yes thank you I have driven an ITB'd car, and no I'm not agitated modified car owner at all. Tbh im actually very happy with the way the torque curve is on the RS-2, it never once feels flat when you put your foot down, be it on road or track. With the ITB'd car I drove it felt good but not once has it made me regret getting the RS-2 over ITB's.

An extra thousand pounds for ITB's for not a not of difference, and having to hack everything so it cant go back to standard once I'm done with the car... Sounds like a fantastic idea getting them to me!

But as always you know better as you've driven one and you could make one of these in your sleep if I remember rightly! Lol

So stop trolling about as what your not getting anywhere with it...

So what figures did it make then? 155ft lb?

 

[Nick172Cup]

So what figures did it make then? 155ft lb?

My Cup did 151ft lb's on the standard RS-2, but with the extended 50mm runner length it made 158ft lb's and an extra 5bhp.

 

[midge]

You say a thousand pound for not alot more gain, butt the rs2 is £1700 (correct me if im wrong) for not alot of gain

 

[Nick172Cup]

You say a thousand pound for not alot more gain, butt the rs2 is £1700 (correct me if im wrong) for not alot of gain

Have you driven in a car with an RS-2 fitted?

And lol, I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of what you said and its frankly retarded...

 

[Dean.]

You wrote me a cheque for £538, not £1200. Just because the £500 got deducted from what I was getting back doesn't mean it didn't cost me 500. I still have the emails that I can put up re pricing if thats what you want Tom? In fact I have all the emails/pms/texts all dated that i can put up so people know how long this saga went on and how I got ripped off. Upto you mate, I've got nothing to lose.

You collected the car (but never dropped it back off like you said you did ^) because you let me down so many times.

Also don't start with all the do I even know what a servo is? I know a hell of a lot more than what I let on to you.

I did have issues, which you ignored until I got arsey, i didnt come to moan, but your mate nick asked me to explain, so I did.

 

[midge]

No i havnt driven one, but i have seen the numbers and graphs, and as i said imo this is a good alternative to cams, it is not an alternative to individual throttles, itb's give around double the gains at around double the price = a diffrent option but not an alternative.

Please take note, i am not insulting the rs2 manifold, its great and gives good numbers for the price, and if i wanted or was going to spend that sort of money on tuning a clio then the rs2 is the best all rounder.

 

[Sir_Dave]

how long this saga went on and how I got ripped off. Upto you mate, I've got nothing to lose.

Whilst this is now going slightly off the topic of RS2's, i would just like to point out something quite important, purely as this comment hit a nerve. Tom, for all his faults, would not rip someone off.

In addition (and i'll be 1st person to admit to being a bit of a wind up merchant), i am sure that all the people on here would agree, that whilst we all have a good b1tch about each others tuning routes & who we choose to actually do the work, 99% of traders on here are all trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability.

Be that Danny, Fred, Tom/James, Ktec & anyone else who flogs/services/tunes our beloved little sh1tboxes.

We're all after the same goals essentially, which means in most cases, someone pushing the boat out & taking a risk on something (JMS + RS2, Danny + Spax, etc). With that development, there are positives, & sometimes negatives, thats how progress is made. You learn from the mistakes.

99% of the time, you also take a lot of sh1t from people that dont agree with your idea, whether they understand it or not. Half the time, said people havent even tested the product to offer an informed opinion, they just jump on the bandwagon. Christ, no wonder Danny seemed a little narked when people slated the Spax setup. Development isnt free. How can you comment without trying something, especially when someone is putting their hand in their own pocket to develop something.

Dean, you obviously had a bad experience with JMS, i could name a hell of a lot more that have had good. Im sure that all the other traders on here could say the same.

Back on topic.

The RS2 is a good piece of kit, that will add a certain extra something to your car, for a not huge amount of money, similar cash to cams, but a different power delivery & easy to swop back to standard.

As they say, its a different route to the same goal. More fun.

 

[Gaz_]

This thread caught my eye this morning as i am looking to modify my Phs 1`s induction in some way. I was either considering the K-tec Itbs as i live near them, or the rs2 inlet.


Having read through i was almost at the point of asking peoples opinions on these but like so many threads on here, this one has once again become a `hammering` session for the usual companies. Its a wonder the traders apart from what i as a forum novice see as a `chosen` few come on here. Never have i come across such a fickle bunch of moaners who seem to be automatically convinced that what they hear is true. I also cant help but think that `brainwashing` by the `chosen` few seems highly likely as a lot of people who comment have never even had work done by the slated tuners.

And i thought the ford scene was bad.....

So back to the point of the thread..... has anyone got any graphes to see? The reason I ask is I was under the impression the Phase 1 has slightly bigger exhaust ports and may respond better to such mods...

Just no,TDF mate

 

[aucky]

To echo Dave, just take it for what it is (NOT an ITB setup!)

Cams + pretty carbon airbox (E.g. Maxogen) + Matched inlets + Remap + Engine mounts would cost roughly the same and wouldn't see you any better off. I havent seen such judgement on the people with these kind of mods?

 

[Sam@NP]

650bhp evo at donnington had to move out of the way of Sam............................................... ...... in a STANDARD trophy with STANDARD brakes (just on R888's)

You're to kind. We were two up as a well.

 

[Chris205]

^what's the point if you're about as talented at driving as Maureen from driving school?

650bhp evo at donnington had to move out of the way of Sam..................................................... in a STANDARD trophy with STANDARD brakes (just on R888's)

I've been out on track before getting tuition, I think before people spend thousands on tuning a good few hours tuition is worth its weight in gold, it tends to calm you down on public roads as well

 

[maupineda]

I just don't think you are looking hard enough maupineda, check my thread out.

The ones I've seen are from Tom, or have you shared yours? I see none on your project, and your videos are not exactly good to see what the inlet can or cannot do. would be interesting to see a video like the posted before, an ITB clio vs an RS2'd, or even vs std.

I bought the V6 box based on porduct graphs and it is very unreal it gives 10hps like the graphs showed, it is very big money and one has to be sure it performs or like many say, spend on something else.

Up to now I have seen only three graphs, and those are in the RS2 page in JMS section

 

[Glos182]

The ones I've seen are from Tom, or have you shared yours? I see none on your project, and your videos are not exactly good to see what the inlet can or cannot do. would be interesting to see a video like the posted before, an ITB clio vs an RS2'd, or even vs std.

I bought the V6 box based on porduct graphs and it is very unreal it gives 10hps like the graphs showed, it is very big money and one has to be sure it performs or like many say, spend on something else.

Up to now I have seen only three graphs, and those are in the RS2 page in JMS section

Yes you are right about the videos maupineda, they were just to show my first track days. My graphs are a few pages back.

As mentioned before, my RS2 Throttle Body wasn't 100% in-line so my rev's dropped at 6.5k instead of 7250 (fixed now), but here was the result at RST:

Still haven't been back to Leeds to get a re-run, its a long way for me, but i went to a local RR which showed the following results:

maupineda its a tough call, i see what you are saying as it's big money, but it's half the money of a turbo/SC, and less hassle than ITB's from what i've been told.

 

[aucky]

I will be posting comparison of standard(ish) vs RS2 when I have the time/dosh to get back on my local rollers.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I'll stick up my graphs this evening also, from standard to RS-2, and then onto the Xtra.

 

[Chris205]

I don't understand how the throttle body couldn't be lined up properly?

This thread is pretty much summing up how useless and expensive clio tuning is

 

[Chris205]

I'll stick up my graphs this evening also, from standard to RS-2, and then onto the Xtra.

I'm really interested to see those nick, I think having a standard figure then modified figure on same rollers will really guage what improvements this manifold can make.

I looked at glos182's graphs thinking 9bhp isn't much of a gain over standard inlet but soon realised the base figure will be with RS2 fitted

 

[aucky]

I'm really interested to see those nick, I think having a standard figure then modified figure on same rollers will really guage what improvements this manifold can make.

I looked at glos182's graphs thinking 9bhp isn't much of a gain over standard inlet but soon realised the base figure will be with RS2 fitted

Exactly. I'll get mine done in a few weeks to compare.

 

[Glos182]

I don't understand how the throttle body couldn't be lined up properly?

This thread is pretty much summing up how useless and expensive clio tuning is

Hopefully Tom will post and explain.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Right here's my Rolling Road printouts from the time I purchased the car.

This is the car when it was completely STANDARD.

As you can see, an average figure from a 172 Cup I feel as standard.

This is the highest STANDARD INLET result I had...

With this setup I had Matched Inlets and a Custom Induction Setup which I personally think gave me such a good gain in bhp and especially torque!

This is the standard RS-2 Results...

So as you can see I may have only made 10bhp PEAK between the modified setup on the inlet manifold and the standard RS-2 after mapping but as I have said before in this thread, the way the power is delivered makes the car feel a lot faster than before. The crazy thing I experienced was even before mapping it felt more urgent a noticably quicker, yet when it first went on the rollers at RSTuning at the beginning of the day it was only making 172bhp!

Also comparing the two graphs it clearly shows I make alot more low-down torque as well as making high-end torque with the RS-2. The only downside is that i've lost a bit of mid-range torque for all of 2,000rpm. And with regards to horsepower, it makes more of it everywhere throughout the rev range.

This is the RS-2 Xtra Results, I do have a slightly more recent one which was 195.5hp and a few more lb/ft of torque but think Tom still has that.

With the RS-2 Xtra i've lost a bit of low-down torque but has bumped up the mid-range and high-end torque as well as a slight horsepower increase.

So between the two RS-2 graphs it shows that the standard RS-2 makes for a great daily/track toy use as it offers good a torque spread throughout the rev range. The Xtra is still good but better for track/race orientated use with its better mid to high range torque and making more horsepower.

So hope that makes some sense and has cleared up some of the confusion etc etc. I strongly suggest anyone that hasnt been out in a RS-2 equipted car should do so to see/feel it first hand as figures really dont show the whole story...

ALSO! I'd like to point out as much as I get on with Tom and James @JMS, these are my Rolling Road printouts and my thoughts on it and most definately NOT what i've been told to say. I know and have heard people say as i'm friends with them that i'll be biased, quite frankly thats silly. They may be friends but if I spent x amount in total and wasn't happy with the car I would say trust me!

Cheers
Nick

 

[shiyan]

That is an impressively flat torque curve

 

[maupineda]

Yes you are right about the videos maupineda, they were just to show my first track days. My graphs are a few pages back.

As mentioned before, my RS2 Throttle Body wasn't 100% in-line so my rev's dropped at 6.5k instead of 7250 (fixed now), but here was the result at RST:

Still haven't been back to Leeds to get a re-run, its a long way for me, but i went to a local RR which showed the following results:

maupineda its a tough call, i see what you are saying as it's big money, but it's half the money of a turbo/SC, and less hassle than ITB's from what i've been told.

Thanks so much for the graphs, graphs from independant parties are very helpful to make one minds up towards something. Very good numbers. What I want to do is to add the RS2 and high comp pistons as I am keeping the clio as a toy for long and may run a daily, but these cars have something very unique.

I just don't want to spend lots and then regret it.