Sachs unpinned, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

[leeroybrown]

Is anyone running this setup either on their Trophy or 182 cup?

If so what are you currently running on the front Sachs, click wise. I know 22 clicks is the standard Reno set the Sach’s to, but what are your currently running?

 

[Sam@NP]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Im running mine on 26 at the moment with custom springs, when it goes on track they get up'd to 28/29 ish.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Is that quite stiff Sam? 26 clicks, obviously you do alot of track days and I dont, just looking for perfect fast road setup that doesn't smash me fillings out lol

 

[Gally]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Easy explanation of unppinning?

More clicks = Harder?

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Far as I am aware it does.

 

[Gally]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Cool, I don't know much about unpinning mate. Good for track work of course and maybe a couple of clicks will improve road driving but surely a road car you wouldn't want it stiff.

That's the reason mine doesn't have the RPJ dampers. Track only.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Yeah will check at the weekend what mine is running, but christ its alittle bit to stiff for my liking lol, will see what its like on 22.

Some one on trophy owners is only running 5 clicks!

 

[Gally]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

If 22 is stiff and that's what the Suspension people have set it at then of course going up the way isn't going to be a good idea on the road. They hardly did a bad job.

Sam tracks a lot which is the big difference. And he's a race driver.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I pretend am a race driver lol

Will try it with 22 then go from there, I assume its case of just turning the knob lol

 

[Sir_Dave]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

The MF'd Trophy i drove was waaaaay too stiff for road use, felt like the rear end was bobbing around all over the place lol ...

Mine is still pinned at Renault settings which i find perfect for road driving (& never wanted to change it on track either tbh) & up to now i've had the standard rear dampers as well. They are now sh4gged so im moving to Koni's - which i'll probably try on the middle click setting & go from there. I have a rear ARB to stiffen things up quite a bit anyway though, so will be able to run the dampers a little softer than you will for the same overall effect.

 

[BenG]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I tried stiffening my Sachs up a tad for road use and it was far too stiff and skittish over bumpy roads, I actually set them softer (18 - 20 Clicks) and it felt a bit too soft, this was probably because I was used to it being stiffer but the turn in response wasn't as sharp. I think Renault set it up pretty much perfect at 22 Clicks.

I'm sure you're aware but the Sachs dampers are only Compression adjustable and the rear Yellow Koni's are only Rebound adjustable.

The rear Koni dampers have 2 and a half turns from fully soft to fully firm, I turned mine to fully firm and turned it back 1 full turn.

However, I don't have the stiffer MF springs so results may vary. I think the front dampers may prefer a softer setting with firmer springs fitted.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Have you got the 'normal' rear koni's Ben or the Mark Fish super special 1 million pound ones?

 

[BenG]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Normal off the shelf Koni's, with the standard springs I thought it would be best to leave them as they are.

 

[Sam@NP]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

between 20 and 24 clicks Id say for the Road. I check mine the other day and they are set at 27. At slow speed it is a little giggly but still very good in the bumpy roads of the Isle of Man.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Fecked on with the settings and now its back on 22 lol

Used to it now Dave with the Mark Fish springs, its pants on shitty bumpy roads, but my christ does it handle well, back end does not feel like its skitish, its bumpy/firm and its not crashy like it was when I had H&R's

 

[Chris205]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Standard is the best setting for the road IMO

Get yourself a pure motorsport strut brace & top mounts coupled with a whiteline....nom nom

 

[p@blo]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I tried stiffening my Sachs up a tad for road use and it was far too stiff and skittish over bumpy roads, I actually set them softer (18 - 20 Clicks) and it felt a bit too soft, this was probably because I was used to it being stiffer but the turn in response wasn't as sharp. I think Renault set it up pretty much perfect at 22 Clicks.

I'm sure you're aware but the Sachs dampers are only Compression adjustable and the rear Yellow Koni's are only Rebound adjustable.

The rear Koni dampers have 2 and a half turns from fully soft to fully firm, I turned mine to fully firm and turned it back 1 full turn.

However, I don't have the stiffer MF springs so results may vary. I think the front dampers may prefer a softer setting with firmer springs fitted.

Are a much better substitute for spring adjustment, surely? Lol. What are the MF spring rates btw?

Thought the pinning from factory was also set differentially to account for unit bias-ie both not necessarily '22 clicks'. You guys must've done some fairly substantial dyno trialling to have calculated such finite variance on damping settings Can someone remind me of the total range of 'click' adjustment-I forget.

 

[Jon.G]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

43IIRC.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Sorted it.

Mark Fish said to try 15 clicks on the front and half a turn from soft on the rear.

Drives lovely now

 

[julzh]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Some one on trophy owners is only running 5 clicks!

Who the hell is that, has he installed an armchair and coffee table as well?
Just to confirm what everyone is saying, 22 is what Renault pinned them at and I think is perfect for general running around/fast road but I have still got the all Renault springs and dampers. I'm quite surprised MF recommended as low as 15!

 

[Jon.G]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

MF springs and re-valved Koni's are stiffer IIRC so it does balance out.

 

[Nick172Cup]

Building this setup for my 182 as we speak, with regards to springs I wonder what the best compromise is for making it sit a little lower than standard yet retaining a nice ride on the road but working well on track. I'm guessing progressive springs are the key for what I want.

Sam - What springs are you running?

 

[julzh]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

MF springs and re-valved Koni's are stiffer IIRC so it does balance out.

Yes I realise that but why go to the trouble and expense to just have a "nice soft ride"

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

The roads where I live are crap.

This setting is less crashy over bumps and still handles really well.

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Building this setup for my 182 as we speak, with regards to springs I wonder what the best compromise is for making it sit a little lower than standard yet retaining a nice ride on the road but working well on track. I'm guessing progressive springs are the key for what I want.

Sam - What springs are you running?

Am running the MF springs, revalved Koni's and 2 the camber.

 

[Jon.G]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Yes I realise that but why go to the trouble and expense to just have a "nice soft ride"

Oh yeah I totally agree.

 

[Stu172cup]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Ive been doing alot of reading into the trophy set up and have found out that some of the BTCC Cars Run Very Soft Dampers , but quite stiff springs , everyone seems obsessed with stiffest hardest they can , wahayyyyyy , when its not ordinerily the best option

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Oh yeah I totally agree.

I didn't they were already on the car, all I wanted was a nicer drive which it is now.

 

[jack_davey]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I've got the trophy dampers and so does my girlfriend, experimented with adjusting the front dampers but everytime we've reverted to the factory settings!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

you want soft front and hard rear - man spec (if that doesn't sound too strange!!!)

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I've got the trophy dampers and so does my girlfriend, experimented with adjusting the front dampers but everytime we've reverted to the factory settings!

I am not running the standard springs Jack

you want soft front and hard rear - man spec (if that doesn't sound too strange!!!)

That's what I currently have it set at, fooking epic little Fred!

 

[MarcB]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Im not too clued up on the sachs suspension and how the "Clicks" work.

From reading this i now understand that the factory renault setting is 22 clicks and the higher the amount of clicks you go the harder the suspension gets.

I think that the renault settings are fine and would like to maybe go a few extra clicks (maybe up to 24/25) but im unsure of how i would do this. Any advice on how this can be done and what it the highest the clicks can go ?

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Has your Sachs front dampers ever been refurb'd Marc?

 

[jack_davey]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

I am not running the standard springs Jack

Me neither

 

[julzh]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Im not too clued up on the sachs suspension and how the "Clicks" work.

From reading this i now understand that the factory renault setting is 22 clicks and the higher the amount of clicks you go the harder the suspension gets.

I think that the renault settings are fine and would like to maybe go a few extra clicks (maybe up to 24/25) but im unsure of how i would do this. Any advice on how this can be done and what it the highest the clicks can go ?

IIRC its 43 clicks across the range but you will have had to have had the dampers "unpinned" at some point to be able to alter the 22 Reno have dialled in. btw the front springs on the Trophy are comparatively soft @ 160Lbs square inch, the dampers do all the work.

 

[MarcB]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Has your Sachs front dampers ever been refurb'd Marc?

Standard dampers that have not been off the car or been refurb'd yet. Got another set coming next week thats going to be getting an overhaul.

IIRC its 43 clicks across the range but you will have had to have had the dampers "unpinned" at some point to be able to alter the 22 Reno have dialled in. btw the front springs on the Trophy are comparatively soft @ 160Lbs square inch, the dampers do all the work.

Im running Mark Fish suspension springs so would this help ?

 

[leeroybrown]

Re: Sachs unpin’d, Koni rears and Mark Fish Springs

Depends on ride you want.

Mine is defo better over bumps then a standard trophy.

Once the are refurb'd Marc they should be de-pined meaning you can adjust the amount of clicks you want to have.

 

[BenG]

They don't always come back unpinned, you should request new dials when having them serviced to make sure.

To remove the pin you first need to remove the grub screw that holds the adjuster dial in place, a 2 or 3mm allen key is used, however, the screw is held in with loctite. You need to heat the loctite in order for it to melt, only then can the grub screw be removed easily and without risk of damaging the screw head.

The dial should then be eased off very carefully because the internal dial pin is fragile, all you need to do then is remove the pin from the dial and fix it back in position.

After doing this to mine and sending them off for servicing BG Motorsports they told me that because the dials now had a hole drilled through it was allowing water/dirt to get into the adjusting mechanism and cause damage. I had new dials and adjuster fitted as a result. you've been warned!

 

[JamesT87]

Mine are off to BG on monday and I have been told that they do not JUST unpin them. They upgrade the adjuster allowing the dampers to become adjustable. there is a cost of around 100ish + VAT to do this. I think hile there being refurbished it is defininitely worth doing!

James

They don't always come back unpinned, you should request new dials when having them serviced to make sure.

To remove the pin you first need to remove the grub screw that holds the adjuster dial in place, a 2 or 3mm allen key is used, however, the screw is held in with loctite. You need to heat the loctite in order for it to melt, only then can the grub screw be removed easily and without risk of damaging the screw head.

The dial should then be eased off very carefully because the internal dial pin is fragile, all you need to do then is remove the pin from the dial and fix it back in position.

After doing this to mine and sending them off for servicing BG Motorsports they told me that because the dials now had a hole drilled through it was allowing water/dirt to get into the adjusting mechanism and cause damage. I had new dials and adjuster fitted as a result. you've been warned!

 

[Krys_23]

Thread bump, just noticed on my dyno results it says my front sachs are unpinned, what tool is required to adjust these? They're too firm around town, cheers.