Serious Lift-off Oversteer!

[Clart]

Coming onto a roundabout doing about 35 thought id have some fun. I was going straigh on but i thort Id powerslide it abit. Oh dear. Was going to fast and turned to much, back end came right round as if i was going right not straight on. So i gave it some opposite lock only for the back end 2 come round the other way. So I gave it some opposite lock the other way - i was fishtailing down the road for what seemed like about 100 meters!!! I eventually hit a kerb and continued on my merry way. There is now a part of my front bumper missing

Must have been a right sight for the people coming the other way!!!!!

Word of warning - the roads must have been freezing which is why i had trouble controlling the slide. BE CAREFUL PEOPLE!

 

[Adams_16v]

mined done that with 17s on about 5 times in the past 4 months. Scary! I thought it was gonna spin but it gripped. Seems to slide more at the moment with the 15s on.

 

[Clart]

I honestly thought i was gonna go into either the bollards or the cars coming the other way!!!! I had to come home and change my pants! Any more valver owners had this?

 

[Clart]

Not the changing the pants bit

 

[BenR]

must of been quite grippy (tyres or road) for it to snap.....otherwise it would of not been as violent.

If it was slippy, the front would of let go first as the front loads up........

But hell, check that the wheel you hit on the kerb isnt bent, and there is no suspension damage as it happens quite easily!

Take care mate......dont wanna see anything happen!

 

[JonC]

Mitsi,

I did exactly the same, back end came out to the point I thought I was gonna spin it but applied loads of oppsite lock to catch it only to go the other way. Fortunately I didnt hit anything, but I did thought I was a gonna. The road had be recently gritted and was therefore quite slippery, but the way the car came around it may just have well been ice!. Still not 100% sure how I recovered it, I think I need some advance driving courses.

 

[Nick Read]

Errr...well Ive done it on a track day, *really* pushing the car hard through a sharp chicane in pouing rain. Thats quite an acheivement to be able to get that out of shape on the Queens Highway at 35mph! Id check your suspension out if I were you, either it was very icy or theres something badly wrong with your suspension or wheels , valvers dont normally behave like that in my experience

 

[Craggy]

thats cos your a road warrior nick

 

[petes]

If the back end of a FWD car starts to break away:

1. Point the front wheels in the direction you want to go
2. Hit the throttle (gently)

Point 2 is the most important. If you just try to steer into it, most FWD cars will do their best to kill you. The reason the back end starts to come around is probably because you have backed off and taken all the weight off the rear wheels. Applying power will a) transfer a bit of weight onto the rear, and b) drag the front of the car in the direction you want to go fast than the back-end can get there.

Be gentle with the steering when you do it!

 

[m888arc]

i did the same as that, when i crashed and rolled....

went round a corner a tad over the nation speed limit on a country lane at 9am in the morning in my escort, back end started to loose it, opposite lock applied, and it span the other way and ended up going backwards and rolling upside down into a ditch! not good!

good news tho...arms all healed now and enjoyin my new valver!

 

[Eric 16v]

Im sure this story has a moral...

Oh yes never lift off round a bend unless you know how to control lift off oversteer!

Its fun if you get it right but you could wind up dead if you dont know what youre doing

I did it once and sh*t myself, luckily I caught it (got away with it) before anything nasty happened, but it taught me to slow before the bend then power out of it when youre in a (nearly) straight line. French hot-hatches have quirky rear ends and lots of power, not a good combination on wet winter roads.

Not that Im giving a sermon or teaching grandmothers to suck eggs or anything

 

[marcus cliogtt]

I have had the same happen to me in my Valver but it was in the wet, luckily saved it before kerb contact! I am going to get the traking sorted before winter really sets in to give me a bit more of a fighting chance in the ice!!

 

[Clart]

Ive dabbled in lift off oversteer b4 and always felt in control but this time was different, dunno whether it was icy road, crap tyres Yoko A539s or both.

 

[RobFenn]

My advice is to get taught on a skidpan by a pro, then youll be the oversteer master!

Basic rules to remember is to do all ur breaking and changing gears in a straight line, and power through the corner. Oversteer is quite easy to control on a fwd as all you have to do is power down and keep a tight grip! Its quite hard to provoke it in my 75bhp beast though!

If you want to be scared the sh*t out of, drive a 205 gti and lift off. Sometimes you need a scary moment to calm yourself down

 

[Clart]

Ive had in it my 106 gti which was good fun on a wet roundabout, and my punto GT did it a bit but the valver was like a fookin animal trying to put me in the hedge!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 19 December 2002


My advice is to get taught on a skidpan by a pro, then youll be the oversteer master!

Basic rules to remember is to do all ur breaking and changing gears in a straight line, and power through the corner. Oversteer is quite easy to control on a fwd as all you have to do is power down and keep a tight grip! Its quite hard to provoke it in my 75bhp beast though!

If you want to be scared the sh*t out of, drive a 205 gti and lift off. Sometimes you need a scary moment to calm yourself down

if only it were that simple mate..........

very few, in fact no decent drivers will adheire to those rules, as they are BSM level rapid progress driving.

if you were to do all your brakin and changing gears in a straight line, you would be on the brakes so early. and what about a long corner....if you dont change, you bounce off the limiter and at speed this is worse than lifting off and you will soon be wrestling with the wheel.

and FWD cars arent made with fidgity tails anymore due to the level of novice drives who keep stacking the things. Like the mid 80s where insurance went metal on hatches....where there was one for every bush.

the only advice is know your limits and dont be an egomaniac.....think you can drive fast and you WILL stack it. and you really shouldnt be driving like a loon the the rd.....i have crashed on the track at speeds that would kill you on the rd instantly...only the space of the track saves you.

take it easy guys!

 

[RobFenn]

I was joking that youd be a master after one track outing..lol

Ben, obviously your a well clued up bloke, and i thought youd agree changing gear mid corner maybe ok if your in a front wheel drive hatch going at 30mph, but in something powerful it is a serious no no. I drove a van deiman when i was 15, if you changed gear in that on a corner, youd spin. The point is you should aim to keep power on all the way through the corner, changing gear, or breaking, or obviously lifting off means that theres no power to the wheels, so ur freewheeling. If ur bouncing off the limiter in a corner, youve changed into the wrong gear and you must not know the corner, so you shouldnt be driving fast anyway.

I totally agree that you have to know your own limits, and also your cars. By all means enjoy a sunday blast but dont do it all the time, especially in dodgy conditions. Unfortunately as im not 18, i cant join track days, but im allowed to race. Its a stupid rule, but ive karted from a young age and done such stuff as banger racing (!) and low formula racing and feel i have moderate knowledge of car handling.

 

[Clart]

Put it this way Ive been driving for 7 years and Ive never had such a close shave!

I dont think it was driver error (ok just a little) if id been a lesser driver id certainly have lost it. Im not saying that Im Colin Mcrae or anything but Ive been driving hot hatches hard for over 3 years and what happened last night certainly gave me the biggest stain ive ever had in my undies!

 

[BenR]

no worries mate.......

i too have been racing to about 12 yrs, all the way through 80cc to 250cc 6 speed sequential super karts (which to date are still the fastes things i have ever driven!!), sport spiders, formua campus and formula renault as well as testing the cliocups now (haha, noticed the link with Renault).

Incidentally, i got a meeting with Peter Thompson of Meritus Motorsport so fingers crossed!!!!!

anyway, all i was getting at is that fooling about on the rd is highly dangerous...and actually scares me when people do erratic things (like sudden change direction like the wind)......ergh.

but you should know that, since you have racing experince especially karts!!!, that braking in a straight line is almost impossible and takes off too much time. And changing gear in a corner without unloading the gearbox is kinda essential, and not hard. like all things, you have to do everything right, as witha race car, itll always spin if it can......which is the fun part haha

how could you go down the craner curves in one gear!!!!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Mitsi on 19 December 2002


Put it this way Ive been driving for 7 years and Ive never had such a close shave!

I dont think it was driver error (ok just a little) if id been a lesser driver id certainly have lost it. Im not saying that Im Colin Mcrae or anything but Ive been driving hot hatches hard for over 3 years and what happened last night certainly gave me the biggest stain ive ever had in my undies!

violent when it goes pear shaped aint it! haha

spesh the snap back

 

[RobFenn]

well the craner is hardly a tight corner(s) there are straight bits! A good example of what i said would be Mcleans, and redgate.

One of my intructors had a 250cc, it was scary fast! Great satisfaction doing good laps in them.

Where are u based ben?

 

[BenR]

Hong Kong

 

[BenR]

oh, the craners become a tight curve at 130!!!!

 

[RobFenn]

lol..its also an absolute tyre killer on FWDs

 

[BenR]

I hate FWD anyway............

actually......

Rob Fenn is quite a good drivers TV name......

its deffo a bit easier than Benjamin Rushworth!

 

[RobFenn]

I know FWD is not particulary good fun on track, apart from a few of the greats. Come to think of it i dont think much of imprezas etc on track in terms of enjoyment.

People rave about caterhams and westies, but i always spin them. And TVRS!!! i think theyre absolute crap, even the new ones. Id prefer a lotus cortina to one of them

lol funny you should say that, i always thought my name was crap for that kinda thing..and if your doing full names, mine would be robert fenn..not quite so good!!

 

[BenR]

ah........the cortina!! superb....now were talking my language!

im a ford nutter BTW.....so, if i go a bit mad...dont worry.

I Nick Stagg who does all the championship winning twin cams in teh lotus cortinas....about 220bhp from teh full spec one which cost over 10 grand!

anyway, i think nothing is as cool as a group 2 anglia......gorgeous....well, and athe fiat 131 arbarth.....stunner

chaterhams are fantastic! goin mate, your a karter.......a sevenesque is nothing comapred to drifting a kart.....

 

[RobFenn]

The rear suspension on the caterfields scare the sh*te out of me! I drove a westie V8 once, manic!

I love the cortinas in the white and green livery, look the biz! Abarths are cool, i used to buy a mag called Auto Italia just to read bits about abarths, in fact i was considering going to get one for my first road car!

 

[BenR]

yeah, auto italia is alright if a little laymandish.........

that fact hat you sit on the rear axle, or the livelyness....haha

http://www.fordanglia.com/faircos00.jpg

drool!!!!

 

[RobFenn]

both! id like to try a new one though, maybe an R300. Have u seen one of them twin engined tigers??

 

[BenR]

yup, but its bit ott and overlycomplex......

i stil love the induction noise of the R500 though.....OMG>.......

 

[RobFenn]

agreed



think weve taken this thread over a bit..

 

[BenR]

haha...ya think!

i got a great MPG of Richard Ince in a R500 round nordschleife buts its 21mb...got broad band?