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Embarrassed to say
Im not sure its such a bad decision unless it was a turbo. I always thought a vx as an excellent second car and not a very good only car. Clio will be quicker round any track than a vx / na, clio will be quicker in everyday driving, clio is more practical, clio doesnt leak, no bang bang bang down the road from the suspension or the thought of hitting a huge pothole and thinking youve broke it, no unsettled behaviour on bumpy roads in the clio, no fidgety steering in the clio, the clio has similar mpg, the clio has a much better heater not something i would be concerned with however the vx one is terrible, better system in the clio and the standard one is pants, less worry with parking the clio, 4 seats in the clio, comfy seats in the clio with rubbish support however, lovely engine in the clio. Only bad thing about the clio is the driving position, its rubbish. In contrast the vx driving position is perfect and the momo airbag steering wheel is class.
looks like your already convinced
Just Do It
Embarrassed to say
I dont think he is convinced yet, he hasnt said. If its me your chatting about i dont need convincing, test drove the 111r and its leagues ahead of the vx and as regards the vxr see all the bad press e.g. Martin Brundles review in car magazine he hated it with a passion. Also note (flamesuit on) vxr/vx-t/vx-na have been eclipsed by the 111r/exige s2, also see magazines for evidence of the same. Also Clio 182 is the performance car is bargain, it came equal with the exige s2 and ahead of the 111r and vxr220 in evos car of the year.
Remapped derv Golf
Buy a full fat 182 with both Cup packs and enjoy the leather seats.
I had a vx220 n/a about 6 months ago and sold it to buy a clio 182.
Everyone thinks the vx is great and it really is but when u own one for day to day use you start getting annoyed when you cant go anywhere with a car park as the door has to be fully open to get out.
I sold mine and I miss it but the 182 is not a bad replacement.
Embarrassed to say
I think some of the posts in the following link sum it up, the vx is a seriously overrated car. A 182 will give you just as much if not more fun and its a great deal cheaper.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?f=104&t=64006http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?f=104&t=64006
In particular the post that starts with -
"There was a thread on the Lotus Life Bulletin Board that is relevant to this discussion, in the interests of information dissemination I have copied it below:
from mrb:
Nick
Theres an old road which runs between my place of work and my parents house up in the Midlands which always used to leave me a bit frustrated and disappointed when I drove it in my previous car, a VX220. The road consists of a long series of fast sweeping bends but it is also very bumpy. The bumpy nature of the road seemed to unsettle the car and frequently deflect it from my desired line, requiring constant steering corrections which meant the car didnt flow smoothly through the bends. In my Elise S2 the situation couldnt be more different. Whilst bumps are still felt every bit as much, the steering doesnt seem to kick back as violently and the car sticks to its line much better, meaning that I can concentrate on carving a smooth line through the turns."
The lotus guy responds in agreement, suggesting that even lotus admit the vx is a huge compromise over the elise.
Embarrassed to say
Cant bloody sleep, even reading car forum posts wont send me off.
The pistonheads people sum the vxs problems up quite nicely, quote-
"I also found the suspension/steering jittery. Im used to very direct steering in short wheel base, mid-engined cars and none of them have ever been like this. Fine on a very flat surface (and I dont mean motorways) but really, really bad on the local country lanes! While this does add to the excitement and fun (if you can call it that) it does make the car anything but easy to drive. "
mmmm
keep the vx
Quote: Originally posted by cupsportmad on 28 January 2005
Im not sure its such a bad decision unless it was a turbo. I always thought a vx as an excellent second car and not a very good only car. Clio will be quicker round any track than a vx / na, clio will be quicker in everyday driving, clio is more practical, clio doesnt leak, no bang bang bang down the road from the suspension or the thought of hitting a huge pothole and thinking youve broke it, no unsettled behaviour on bumpy roads in the clio, no fidgety steering in the clio, the clio has similar mpg, the clio has a much better heater not something i would be concerned with however the vx one is terrible, better system in the clio and the standard one is pants, less worry with parking the clio, 4 seats in the clio, comfy seats in the clio with rubbish support however, lovely engine in the clio. Only bad thing about the clio is the driving position, its rubbish. In contrast the vx driving position is perfect and the momo airbag steering wheel is class.
You think a Clio will be faster than a VX, even an n/a around a track??
I would have thought the VX would be a little faster on a track?
VX220 144bhp and only 875kgs = 165bhp per tonne
Clio182 178bhp and 1085kgs = 164bhp per tonne
VX has much lower CG, so would have thought it faster on a track? but NOT much in it either way.
Simon.
but i reckon the 182 is a nicer road car.....
Clio 197
Sorry... its a bit early, and I can barely see the screen.....!
182 with cup packs is good for day-to-day driving. Relatively cheap to run.
There are a lot of high mileage drivers on here who will vouch for that. The only thing that could be better is high speed long distance cruising - going over 80 starts to get noisy IMO...
So, will it be inferno?
You are confused if you think a 182 would be quicker than a standard VX220 around "any track". Whilst the Clio is more practical and more comfortable to drive, the VX is FAR more focused as a drivers car. It demands more of you which when you are not in the mood can be tiring. To call the 182 a better drivers car is frankly laughable.
I had 4 variants of Elise over the years and they are great cars. I took a 48hr test drive in a VX Turbo and that is a balistically fast car. The car I had was supplied by Vauxhall and I suspect it was overboosting as it just cant have been that quick as standard.
The Lotus badge is obviously more desirable than Vauxhalls but the reality is the 111R is FAR more money both new and second hand than the VXT. Id rather spend £18k on a low miles VXT than £25k ish for a low miles 111R. In any case the Vauxhall merely requires a few mods before you can access another level of performance.
Embarrassed to say
In any test the 111r comes out top over the vxt and the vxr is just useless on the road. What your prefer is your preference, the better car is always going to be the lotus. Drive a vx on a bumpy road and your get a clearer picture.
Around the topgear track the s2 elise took about 1.36, this has a similar power to weight as the vx - 117bhp and 760kg weight. The clio 182 took 1.33.8 to get round the top gear track, the vxt with another 50bhp only beats this time by 2 seconds.
fat 182
i got rid of a MR2 roadster and got a 182 with cup packs
some people said i was downgrading ive got a car tha pratical now and a great divers car and 5 grand cheaper than i payed for my MR2
You will never beat the handling of a mid engined rear wheel drive car (in the dry) but the 182 is pretty close
My friends are all gutted that Ive sold my Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo and am getting a "Clio". They know that its going to be a good one because Ive had a 16V and a Williams in the past. But theres still that stigma and a Clio, apart from a V6, isnt going to be as much a talking point as something that makes you look like you lead a rakish lifestyle.
BUT
A 2.0 Clio is nearly as fast in a straight line, handles excellently, rides far better, has puny running costs in comparion and has a wealth of practicality emanating from the fact that its still based on a shopping trolley.
The killer thing that made me return to hot Clio ownership was the fact that a 172/182 does all the things a sports car does - but still has room for my bikes, trips away and so on.
What is a standard like VX compared to a standard Elise? Ive driven the Elise a lot more than the VX220 and found it to be quite uncompelling compared to what car magazines say. Relative to an average car, they are superb, but they are gutless and the handling leans towards understeer. Brakes are also poor. I would still rather have one over a Clio, even a V6.
-Rob
Dont mindlessly swallow everything the car magazines print. Lots of them are taking backhanders from the manufacturers. If you are talking track times (and Im not sure your figures are accurate) 2 secs is a LOT! Regardless a RWD mid engined sports car, like the VX or ELise IS more fun to drive hard than a FWD hot hatch.
Im quite enjoying my 182, but I dont find myself setting the alarm early on a Sunday morning so I can go and drive on quiet roads in the manner the driving gods intended. Its just not that sort of car.
The car mags may well rate the 111R as being superior to the VXT, Ive driven both extensively and the VAuxhall is faster in the real world. It has more torque but importantly its MASSIVELY cheaper. Im a big Lotus fan but the 111R is not worth over £10k more than a VXT with 2-3000 miles on it.
While im on the subject of car magazine reviews have you ever wondered why they dont print the prices (In EVO, CAr, Autocar) etc that people are actually paying for cars in the real world? The Clio 182 Cup is considered a relative bargain in the press. Fact is you can buy a 182 with all the toys plus Cup packs for around £12.5k brand new...and most people do.
Taking that price into the equation the 182 is unbeatable value for money. The new Golf GTI may be bigger and better built, but with a bit of spec on it its over £20k WITH discounts. I can tell you its not £8k better ,when judged as a drivers car, next to the 182....
That was mainly the engine though, not the car and certainly there is nothing in a Renault road car that can be identified as being derived from modern F1. To compare with motorsport with road cars, something like Touring Cars is probably more accurate, which is where your theory falls flat on its face!
Around a track a n/a VX would be faster than a Clio 182 I would have thought, it is quicker in a straightline and youd expect it to handle better.
Ive got a NA 2.2 VX and a 182 with cup packs
The VX is quicker from a standing start, but the Clio is quicker once you get going
The key points to consider are;
- you feel like youre in a special car in the VX, in the Clio you dont
- If you are an average driver you will be quicker in the Clio, if you are good the VX will be quicker
- you can get the roof off on the VX
- You can use the Clio properly most of the year, the VX is only really usable half of the year
HTH
Embarrassed to say
If the 182 is not the best of all the cars mentioned in this thread, then why did evo vote it 3rd in their car of the year above the very best £30,000 vx220. The 182 is special but its a different ownership proposition. Any car that you drive all year round is not going to feel as special as a car you drive once a week or when the weathers nice.
