Shoudnt the 172 feel quicker than this?

[Ajedi88]

Hi guys, i bought a clio 172 about a week ago. i should say that i also own a BMW 320d 163bhp model for daily driving, however the clio is not much quicker on acceleration.
now i know its only a 2 litre but at half the weight and more power i thought the clio would have a noticeable difference. The car idles well and drives amazingly but i feel that it should have more power.
Am i missing something?

thanks

 

[frayz]

Probably missing that your turbo diesel has a huge compression ratio and a turbocharger. Subsequently a huge wall of low down torque that your Clio will unfortunately never have in NA format.

RS Clios are not fast, they can just be driven very fast.

 

[JamesBryan]

Torque makes the difference to how fast a car feels.

The BMW will probably have double the torque of a Clio, delivered instantly as well.

Clio should pick up high in the rev range, 5k+

 

[Ajedi88]

Thanks Frayz, i see where your coming from. ive just completed my automotive and motorsport engineering degree, so bought as a hill climb / track car.
the car handles great and it will out maneuver the BMW, its just under the power to weight logic it should be / feel faster. I do however give the diesel one death and havn't took the Clio past 5k RPM ( so used to diesels). thanks for the fast responses. to be fair im scared of braking the engine as they just seem fragile.

 

[JamesBryan]

Not that fragile if you stay off the limiter.

They tend to not like limiter bashing.

 

[botfch]

It won't break, just requires a different driving style if your used to driving turbo cars.
Doesn't really come alive until 5k+ revs.

 

[Ajedi88]

Ill get the car back out today and give it another go, this time with more enthusiasm .
so the power band is between 5k and 7k RPM, thats actually quite interesting as i was tempted to calculate the optimum length and diameter of the inlet and exhaust to see if theres any improvement. i did the whole pulse tuning thing on the BMW and gained around 5BHP for one of the uni projects.

im sure somebody will have done this on here, so ill have a search around in the forums this morning, it would be interesting to see if the torque curve could be moved slightly or if there could be small few hidden horses.

 

[frayz]

Ill get the car back out today and give it another go, this time with more enthusiasm .
so the power band is between 5k and 7k RPM, thats actually quite interesting as i was tempted to calculate the optimum length and diameter of the inlet and exhaust to see if theres any improvement. i did the whole pulse tuning thing on the BMW and gained around 5BHP for one of the uni projects.

im sure somebody will have done this on here, so ill have a search around in the forums this morning, it would be interesting to see if the torque curve could be moved slightly or if there could be small few hidden horses.

The torque curve can be moved quite well with the addition of retiming the cams to group n specs and a subsequent remap.

 

[Darren S]

Ill get the car back out today and give it another go, this time with more enthusiasm .
so the power band is between 5k and 7k RPM, thats actually quite interesting as i was tempted to calculate the optimum length and diameter of the inlet and exhaust to see if theres any improvement. i did the whole pulse tuning thing on the BMW and gained around 5BHP for one of the uni projects.

im sure somebody will have done this on here, so ill have a search around in the forums this morning, it would be interesting to see if the torque curve could be moved slightly or if there could be small few hidden horses.

I had a large amount of work done to mine recently and across the board, I can feel a change in the available torque. Not a neck-snapping change, but one where simply pulling out of junction and mildly accelerating when you pickup 2nd and then 3rd gear - it's certainly there.

However, as others, the transformation is further up the range. North of 4.5k it's a totally differently delivery and very eager to keep going. I've not hit the limiter since the rebuild and I don't really intend to - but the upper rev ranges now are a much more enjoyable place to be and don't seemingly get out of breath like the standard 182 setup did.

 

[Mr Burns]

Unlike most diesel cars, the Clio rewards you more the harder you drive it. In the right conditions the Clio will be significantly quicker.

 

[Martin_172]

Looking forward to the update post when you have taken it above 5k lol

 

[MarkCup]

...havn't took the Clio past 5k RPM...

This, is everything. Get out there and drive it hard, like really hard.

Below 5k, if you're used to diesel or a more modern turbo petrol engine, is not a fun place to be.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Am i missing something?

thanks

Yeah, as mentioned.. about 200Nm of torque

If you've just finished a Motorsport BEng you should know that torque wins races.

I've driven plenty of Clios, and currently got a Mini with the same engine as your BMW, and 30-70, the Clio wouldn't stand a chance with that mid range / real world torque.

Round a track, the Clio would be faster as it handles better and you're not often under 50mph.

Not sure where you're based, but do ensure the timing has been done properly. No tipex for example... When was it last done and by whom ?

 

[dann2707]

I had the same disappointment when I drove back my clio for the first time as I was used to my seat ibiza pd130 derv. That was until I got onto the back road coming into where my parents lived where I took it to the limiter and my god the smile on my face! I then understood the hype

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

If you measure it, the Clio should be markedly quicker to 100 than the 320d, but it probably won't feel quicker from the drivers seat.

 

[DrR]

Not taken above 5k!!!! When I had mine and was on it I didn’t let it go below that!

 

[frayz]

Clio bum dyno is measured in how fast you can chuck it into the next corner and appear alive the other side

 

[Ajedi88]

Hi guys, been out and its a different car above 5k, but i dont think it'll be driven like that all the time. I can see where the hype is with these cars now!
Has anyone had a look at inlet and exhaust lengths to see if theres a noticeable difference?
thanks for the replies and ill try not to drive it like a pussy lol

 

[frayz]

Hi guys, been out and its a different car above 5k, but i dont think it'll be driven like that all the time. I can see where the hype is with these cars now!
Has anyone had a look at inlet and exhaust lengths to see if theres a noticeable difference?
thanks for the replies and ill try not to drive it like a pussy lol

You'll read about short runner intake called an RS2. This adds bhp up top but flatlines at 150/155lbsft and is reluctant to make anymore.

 

[plenty]

TBH any gains from NA tuning are fairly marginal and will never make the car feel anything like a turbo. Best to learn to enjoy it for what it is - a high-revving NA experience.

 

[Ajedi88]

True, as I said in the original post I bought it for trackdays and hillclimb and a bit of fast road so once its stripped out it might be a bit better. Wasnt the rs2 originally built for the formula Renault's?

 

[Clio182mike]

I remember the first time I gave my old 172 a hard drive and the grin factor it gives. Hadn't had that feeling since I had my old 1301cc mini (still better Imo 😉) on the road.

 

[McGherkin]

The Clio is like a go-kart. And not one you care about, I mean some rental at your local crash'n'bash. Throw it into corners and generally drive it with that mindset, and it will come alive.

There are gains to be had from the engine without forced induction, but generally the options are very expensive for very little gain. Generally speaking it's better to just leave the engine as is unless you strap a turbo to it.

 

[497adam]

Group n gives impressive gains especially on a strong engine. It transforms everyday driving


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Krarl]

My dad didn't think much to my 172 until I told him to stop being a pussy and actually let it rev over 5 grand

He said "the feeling that you can die anytime" in a Clio will always haunt him 😂 My brother and his mates all went very quiet when I dropped them off at the pub once, can't imagine why

 

[Louis]

My dad didn't think much to my 172 until I told him to stop being a pussy and actually let it rev over 5 grand

He said "the feeling that you can die anytime" in a Clio will always haunt him 😂 My brother and his mates all went very quiet when I dropped them off at the pub once, can't imagine why

They do about 5mph in 2nd when you're more than 1 person up

 

[Krarl]

They do about 5mph in 2nd when you're more than 1 person up

You must have a retarded spec Clio 😂

 

[JamesBryan]

They do about 5mph in 2nd when you're more than 1 person up

You must be @Yorkshire Pudding's dad 😂

 

[Louis]

You must have a retarded spec Clio 😂

Not like they have loads of torque to lug everyone around

 

[Louis]

You must be @Yorkshire Pudding's dad 😂

When you have 4 people in your clio they're not exactly fast 😂 have to avoid scraping on the rear aswell.

 

[JamesBryan]

When you have 4 people in your clio they're not exactly fast 😂 have to avoid scraping on the rear aswell.

Not a problem with two seats in 👌🏻

 

[frayz]

I cant find 3 other people i tollerate enough to put them in my car.
Thats what bus passes are for

 

[Krarl]

Not like they have loads of torque to lug everyone around

Don't need torque when you just give it a clutch drop at 6k and 1 tyre fire all the way down the road on limiter

My brother and his mates are built like you, proper Japanese racings snakes 😂

Not a problem with two seats in 👌🏻

I love only having 2 seats, "can I have a lift to..." NOOOO f**k OFF!!!

 

[Martin_172]

They do about 5mph in 2nd when you're more than 1 person up

Adding people changes the gear ratios????

 

[Louis]

Adding people changes the gear ratios????

Power to weight bruv. I get the power back by putting some stickers on the doors

 

[Kev@KAM]

Compared to a modern car its not fast.
I have a modern turbo BMW and quite frankly I get in to the Clio and am initially disappointed. I hate the VVT characteristics and lack of excitment engine wise.
Then I have a brain reset and realise its not about accelerating fast but maintaining speed. The car has a good spread of torque so you can pedal it fast without easily getting caught out with a wrong gear. The chassis is sharp enough to attack the corners but not too nervous that its snapping at the back. Basically keep the fluidity of motion through the corners and the car will reward.

 

[Mr Burns]

We live in the Carwow generation now, where most people just want a prestige automatic that does an 11 second 1/4 mile. Sad times for people who like an involving drive.

 

[Greeny.]

Great on track, not sure I would want one as a daily these days though unless I had decent roads to abuse on the way to/back from work. Driving to and from track my little 182 feels so small these days.

 

[JB21]

Not much in it even when you do actually rev the Clio...

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel323-1298.htm

 

[Greeny.]

We live in the Carwow generation now, where most people just want a prestige automatic that does an 11 second 1/4 mile. Sad times for people who like an involving drive.

Which is mainly only good for bragging rights rather than actually using the power for 90% of the time lol. One of the reasons I got rid of my M135i tbh, no where to safely use the power, I much prefer my mapped E91 330d on the roads, although I’m sure this is also partly due to me growing up/getting old.