Starting issues

[Greg.w]

Evening folks

Got a 182 that's in the home straight to becoming a track car. Last 1 or 2 things to sort out and now I'm having starting issues!

Firstly, I think the alternator has just packed in. But even with a jumper pack on the battery the car will only turn over and not start at times. Would a failed alternator cause it to not start and just turn over?

Randomly it will start, but doesn't seem to be a pattern to it.

I have read the codes with a decent diagnostic kit and apart from airbag and aircon faults as they have been removed, the only "real" faults I can see point towards the throttle pedal. Something along the lines of track 1 and 2 not being the same? I'll get a photo of the codes next time if that would help. Would a throttle pedal issue cause the engine not to fire?

It will turn over fine but not fire.

Any advice on what to check next?

Thanks
Greg

 

[Greg.w]

Any thing worth checking first? Planning on looking at this tomorrow night.

I'm thinking possibly the key? I have a spare so can try this first.

 

[JamesBryan]

Have you checked the big white connector in the fusebox? They're usually common for corrosion causing pedal faults like that.

Worth a look.

Also worth having a look at live data to see if you can see the engine/cranking speed when turning over to see if the crank sensor is working.

 

[Greg.w]

Have you checked the big white connector in the fusebox? They're usually common for corrosion causing pedal faults like that.

Worth a look.

Also worth having a look at live data to see if you can see the engine/cranking speed when turning over to see if the crank sensor is working.

This the main fuse box in the engine bay? That'll be my first thing to check.

I've got the live data on my diagnostic so I'll make sure I'm getting crank info back if it's there. Thanks

 

[Sash]

What does the immobiliser light do?

 

[Greg.w]

What does the immobiliser light do?

I didn't pay too much attention tbh. What should or shouldn't it do?

 

[Greg.w]

Doing a bit of searching and sound like it could well the crank sensor?

 

[Sash]

I didn't pay too much attention tbh. What should or shouldn't it do?

Check whether it stays solid when you crank it…

Take the tdc sensor off and give it a good clean or try a new one.

 

[Greg.w]

Check whether it stays solid when you crank it…

Take the tdc sensor off and give it a good clean or try a new one.

Brilliant I'll keep an eye on that tomorrow when I give it a try.

Is the tdc sensor and the crank sensor the same thing?

 

[JamesBryan]

This the main fuse box in the engine bay? That'll be my first thing to check.

I've got the live data on my diagnostic so I'll make sure I'm getting crank info back if it's there. Thanks

Yeah next to the battery, can be hard to get it apart.

99% of Clios have some sort of corrosion on those.

 

[JamesBryan]

Brilliant I'll keep an eye on that tomorrow when I give it a try.

Is the tdc sensor and the crank sensor the same thing?

Yeah same thing.

 

[Greg.w]

Yeah next to the battery, can be hard to get it apart.

99% of Clios have some sort of corrosion on those.

Battery is in the boot so bit easier to access the fuse box and crank sensor by looks of it. Atleast it gives me a starting point to diagnose 👍 thanks

 

[Greg.w]

What does the immobiliser light do?

Immobiliser light in the centre of the gauges stays off when I'm cranking. Confirmed tonight. Assuming this is what it's meant to do?

Also tried the other key, same thing.

 

[Greg.w]

Have you checked the big white connector in the fusebox? They're usually common for corrosion causing pedal faults like that.

Worth a look.

Also worth having a look at live data to see if you can see the engine/cranking speed when turning over to see if the crank sensor is working.

So still got a no start tonight. Toom the sensor out and gave it a clean, all looked OK. Gave it a crank with the scanner live data up and it's reading 150 to 200 rpm on start up. If the rpm is coming back does that rule out the crank sensor completely?

 

[JamesBryan]

So still got a no start tonight. Toom the sensor out and gave it a clean, all looked OK. Gave it a crank with the scanner live data up and it's reading 150 to 200 rpm on start up. If the rpm is coming back does that rule out the crank sensor completely?

Yeah if it's showing rpm when cranking then it should fire up.

That's assuming it's reading 0rpm with just the ignition on.

Next would be to check for fuel. If you pop the feed off the rail and put into a bottle and see if any comes out when cranking.

 

[Greg.w]

Yeah if it's showing rpm when cranking then it should fire up.

That's assuming it's reading 0rpm with just the ignition on.

Next would be to check for fuel. If you pop the feed off the rail and put into a bottle and see if any comes out when cranking.

Yep zero when ignition off, then when cranking it was between 150 and 200rpm which sounds about right.

So fuel was my next thing. I picked the car up a couple of months ago, literally drove it home and it been worked on since (stripped out, cage, bucket seats etc etc plus suspension work), so I have no idea how accurate the fuel gauge is. I went I got a jerry cans worth, about a gallon, and put it in. The gauge was reading 1 tick above empty just FYI.

Tried it again a few times and nothing. Fitted a new alternator as the old one was dead and tried again. Nothing. I unplugged the small connector off the alternator and removed the alternator main cable just incase it was giving some strange feedback to the ecu. It fired straight up. I switched it off, reconnected everything on the alternator and again it fired straight up. I think the alternator wiring is a red herring. Got a funny feeling it was just priming the fuel lines when I was trying it before and it was just a coincidence it fired up when I disconnected the wires.

It's did cut out once or twice but did restart. I think my next move is to stick 20 quid in it and take it a blast so the ecu can relearn everything as it's been disconnected/batterys been dead for a few months.

Sound like a plan? 🤣

 

[JamesBryan]

Yep zero when ignition off, then when cranking it was between 150 and 200rpm which sounds about right.

So fuel was my next thing. I picked the car up a couple of months ago, literally drove it home and it been worked on since (stripped out, cage, bucket seats etc etc plus suspension work), so I have no idea how accurate the fuel gauge is. I went I got a jerry cans worth, about a gallon, and put it in. The gauge was reading 1 tick above empty just FYI.

Tried it again a few times and nothing. Fitted a new alternator as the old one was dead and tried again. Nothing. I unplugged the small connector off the alternator and removed the alternator main cable just incase it was giving some strange feedback to the ecu. It fired straight up. I switched it off, reconnected everything on the alternator and again it fired straight up. I think the alternator wiring is a red herring. Got a funny feeling it was just priming the fuel lines when I was trying it before and it was just a coincidence it fired up when I disconnected the wires.

It's did cut out once or twice but did restart. I think my next move is to stick 20 quid in it and take it a blast so the ecu can relearn everything as it's been disconnected/batterys been dead for a few months.

Sound like a plan? 🤣

If you hold the button in on the right wiper stalk and turn the ignition on it will put the dials into self test mode.

When it's running you can press the button to scroll through and it will give you the fuel level in litres.

Turn the key off to exit the test.

 

[Greg.w]

If you hold the button in on the right wiper stalk and turn the ignition on it will put the dials into self test mode.

When it's running you can press the button to scroll through and it will give you the fuel level in litres.

Turn the key off to exit the test.

Is it accurate though? I've had cars in the past that showed quarter tank and it was on fumes 🤣

 

[JamesBryan]

Is it accurate though? I've had cars in the past that showed quarter tank and it was on fumes 🤣

Yeah mine is accurate 😅

 

[Greg.w]

Yeah mine is accurate 😅

That's leads to the question. If it's not fuel what's next on the list?

- Its turning over great. Will continually turn over not just for a seconds or 2 like I've read others having starting issues.
- No immobiliser light on.
- Can hear the fuel pump prime.
- White plug in engine bag looks nice and dry.
- Crank sensor seems OK giving a reading.

 

[JamesBryan]

That's leads to the question. If it's not fuel what's next on the list?

- Its turning over great. Will continually turn over not just for a seconds or 2 like I've read others having starting issues.
- No immobiliser light on.
- Can hear the fuel pump prime.
- White plug in engine bag looks nice and dry.
- Crank sensor seems OK giving a reading.

Can only be fuel or spark tbh.

If it has them then there's no reason it shouldn't fire. Unless there was no compression but you know it has that because it's ran before.

 

[Greg.w]

Can only be fuel or spark tbh.

If it has them then there's no reason it shouldn't fire. Unless there was no compression but you know it has that because it's ran before.

Yeah it runs lovely...... When it runs 🤣

Is there any other sensors that tell the ecu it's OK to fire? Obviously the crank sensor but anything else?

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah it runs lovely...... When it runs 🤣

Is there any other sensors that tell the ecu it's OK to fire? Obviously the crank sensor but anything else?

Not that I know of 🤔

Once it's running it uses a combination of sensors for fueling adjustments, lambda, map, coolant temp

 

[Greg.w]

Not that I know of 🤔

Once it's running it uses a combination of sensors for fueling adjustments, lambda, map, coolant temp

Yeah assumed that but was worth an ask 🤣.

Thanks for your help on this mate. Will post an update when I get to it next

 

[Greg.w]

So got it running tonight after sorted a leaking thermostat out. Stuck a couple of gallons of super in and took it a "brisk" drive. Didn't skip a beat and ran perfect all the way through the rev range.

Thanks for all the helpful comments folks!

Now to sort the pms shifter which is set up horribly 😭

 

[JamesBryan]

So got it running tonight after sorted a leaking thermostat out. Stuck a couple of gallons of super in and took it a "brisk" drive. Didn't skip a beat and ran perfect all the way through the rev range.

Thanks for all the helpful comments folks!

Now to sort the pms shifter which is set up horribly 😭

I've heard it's best to set them up with 2 of you.

Loosen the shift linkage clamp and then manually shift the gearbox into reverse, which is push up on the shift arm and back towards the rear of the car.

Then have someone in the car holding the shifter in the reverse position.

Tighten clamp up, then run it through the gears without the engine running initially.

 

[Greg.w]

I've heard it's best to set them up with 2 of you.

Loosen the shift linkage clamp and then manually shift the gearbox into reverse, which is push up on the shift arm and back towards the rear of the car.

Then have someone in the car holding the shifter in the reverse position.

Tighten clamp up, then run it through the gears without the engine running initially.

Yeah I read that somewhere too.

When I first got the car the reverse lock out was set up badly so you could accidently select reverse when selecting first so it was a nightmare to drive it home.

I did tweak it the other night with a mate. Selected reverse, positioned it in the car so the lock out would work then tightened the clamp. It's better, and the lock out does now work, but can be hard to find 3rd. Think it needs more tweaking.

I fitted one of those gearbox seal repair kits (that a lot of people on the forum say are useless). It's actually stopped most of the weep from the selector shaft, but it's made the gear change quite tight. So think that needs oiled/wd40d and worked back and forth before it frees up some.