Stud and nut info

[sam JFM]

One thing I will say that's negative for the pms kit : who the hell owns a 5.5mm Allen key? Or 7/32's in old money? surely 5mm would have been better!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol I had a couple lieing around but I'm old.

5.5 makes sense as it can handle about 20% more torque than 5mm so less likely to round and 6 mm wouldn't really have fit properly without it getting thin walled.

He should include one when sending them out though I guess!

One thing I will say that's negative for the pms kit : who the hell owns a 5.5mm Allen key? Or 7/32's in old money? surely 5mm would have been better!

 

[Jekyll]

Ive been toying with the idea of adding spacers but having a look at so many threads on here im now confused lol.

Im looking at getting either 15mm or 20mm spacers and would ideally go and get a stud kit. What length studs would i need for those 2 sizes? Also i take it that what ever nuts i decide to use it wouldnt make with the stud length?

And lastly is hubcentric spacers essential? I use my car daily but probably will never see track use.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The pure kit will take a 15mm or 20mm spacer.
Yes you want hub centric. Don't confuse hubcentric with bolt to hub though. Different thing altogether.

 

[danh90]

I've got 25mm hubcentric on the front and 15mm extended bolts on the rear mate

From what chips said the normal size studs from pm will go into the spacer on the hubcentric and on the rears go into hub and spacer then wheel just slide over and nut on

 

[Space Cadet]

For anyone that's interested I've ordered a new set of matching 30mm front / 25mm rear spacers so will have my Eibach 25mm front / 20mm rear spacers available soon. These are to be used with a stud kit, the front spacers accepts studs and the rears slide over studs already screwed into the hub

 

[Jekyll]

Yes im getting that muddled up with bolt to hub type So do I need a bolt to hub type or can I get away with the longer bolt type if the bolts will be replaced with studs?

Also I was on prima racings site last night. Are they studs decent? They sell them individually.

http://www.primaracing.com/PriceList.aspx

I take it its 80mm ones to run 15mm spacers? Sorry for the many questions and lack of knowledge on this!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes you can just slide the spacers up the studs if they are long enough, you dont need bolt to hub and in fact in the case of 15mm I cant personally name any bolt to hub type I would be happy using, the only ones Ive seen I would be worried about the safety of due to the lack of material present at the key points for strength under the bolt heads.

 

[Jekyll]

Ok that's helpful chip. Ill look into the extended bolt type but replace the bolts with studs all round. Its my daily so its just gets the odd blast and will probably never see track use, but my TPI polarised bolts are all rusting hence why im looking at a stud kit.

I run the wilwood setup and they dont have any disc retaining screws so is a nightmare trying to line up to get the bolts in everytime i take the wheels off. Stud kit is much easier tbh.

I know people are mentioning a lot of the pure motorsport kit but i was originally looking at some fancy nuts so thats why i posted up the prima racing studs as i wanted to know if it was an equally good but cheaper option if people didnt want to spend £130 and then more on nuts.

 

[sam JFM]

iirc the pure kit is £130 for studs and nuts?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Pure will sell you just the studs without nuts if you want to add your own fancy looking ones mate.
But obvioulsy you will need to measure up for clearance before ordering the nuts.

 

[Martin.]

Yeah the Pure kit is £130 all in. Studs, nuts and stud lock or whatever it is called.

 

[Jekyll]

Thanks for all the answers guys, been very helpfull

Might see how much it is just for the studs of PM.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thanks for all the answers guys, been very helpfull

Might see how much it is just for the studs of PM.

6 quid a stud bought seperately (so 96 plus postage for a set) :

http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=131

But he might do you a deal if you ask nicely and are buying 16 I guess.

 

[Space Cadet]

Bolt the front 25mm spacer on then the studs screw into the front spacer, and on the rear the studs go into the car as per normal then the 15mm spacer just slides over them.

I run my PM kit on the turbo that way on the front as I have 30mm spacers.

Hi Chip, I've been let down by DAN@MAD on the new spacers, where did you get your 30mm spacers from please? - I cant seem to find them anywhere on t'net. Thanks Mark

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hi Chip, I've been let down by DAN@MAD on the new spacers, where did you get your 30mm spacers from please? - I cant seem to find them anywhere on t'net. Thanks Mark

I dont remember now mate, just whatever google brought up at the time.

They are these though:
http://www.carparts-tuning.co.uk/en...or-Renault-Clio-Typ-B-C57-3-Typ-R-tuning.html

 

[Space Cadet]

I dont remember now mate, just whatever google brought up at the time.

They are these though:
http://www.carparts-tuning.co.uk/en...or-Renault-Clio-Typ-B-C57-3-Typ-R-tuning.html

Thanks Chip, they'll do very nicely!

 

[Space Cadet]

I dont remember now mate, just whatever google brought up at the time.

They are these though:
http://www.carparts-tuning.co.uk/en...or-Renault-Clio-Typ-B-C57-3-Typ-R-tuning.html

Hey Chip, I've just ordered a set of 30mm spacers using the link you kindly provided. Quick couple of questions please - the PM studs only need to be tightened into the spacers by 20 NM, but what torque do the bolts that fasten the spacers to the hubs need to be tightened to? and should I use any Threadlock/Studlock? Thanks as always, Mark.
​

 

[Chip-mk1]

Hey Chip, I've just ordered a set of 30mm spacers using the link you kindly provided. Quick couple of questions please - the PM studs only need to be tightened into the spacers by 20 NM, but what torque do the bolts that fasten the spacers to the hubs need to be tightened to? and should I use any Threadlock/Studlock? Thanks as always, Mark.
​

Don't think there was a data sheet with the spacers but you could email the seller I guess. Personally I just torqued them as if they were normal wheel nuts.
If you aren't taking them on and off often a thread lock would be a good idea. I've done mine dry for now though as in middle of developing a big brake conversion.

 

[Space Cadet]

Don't think there was a data sheet with the spacers but you could email the seller I guess. Personally I just torqued them as if they were normal wheel nuts.
If you aren't taking them on and off often a thread lock would be a good idea. I've done mine dry for now though as in middle of developing a big brake conversion.

Thanks Chip. I enlarged a photo of the supplied bolts on the FK page and they appear to have 10.9 stamped on them which would indicate they should withstand the normal wheel bolt torque of 105NM. I seem to remember JMS also saying this a few years ago when they first fitted them. Will use some threadlock then as they wont be coming off for a while.
​

 

[Cup_Phil]

I still find all this very difficult to understand

PMS say there studs will only support up to a 12mm spacer but then chip says 15 and even 20mm is fine

I don't want to fit 25mm bolt to hub spacers to find they rub at the front but I also don't want to buy a stud kit and then find I can only fit 12mm spacers lol

We need a thread where people just put what spacer/stud kit they are running

I agree the 15mm bolt to hub look dodgy though - not a lot of material considering it's only a 4 stud wheel and the forces it will be encountering on track

 

[Chip-mk1]

Phil. I am saying they are physically long enough to take the spacer, so you dont need to go any longer.

However what I am NOT saying is that that ANY spacer of 20mm should ever be used as a slide on fitment, what Pure are no doubt saying is that if you go over 12mm then the amount of exposed thread is approaching 20mm, and thats all they are confident they can cope with before it becomes an issue.

If you are running 20mm spacers, you have an inch of exposed thread to stretch, thats going to be a lot of length gained when they get hot, which means the nuts will loosen, I would personally recomend at that size of spacer that you swap to a bolt to hub type instead.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhh got you - I assumed they were saying they literally weren't long enough - but no I understand the risk of them heating up and stretching and working loose is high

I think I'm going to go with some 25mm bolt to hub spacers with the PMS stud kit - I just need to be sure the 25mm won't rub
But I can always crack some more negative camber on - as with the KW V2's if I put full negative camber on the wheel hits the springs lol

I'm just not sure about the MAD spacers being made of alloy - the 25mm bolt to hub spacers sold on ebay are steel which seems a bit safer to me

 

[Space Cadet]

The rear 20mm spacers I'm taking off slide over the PM studs and I've had no problems. I'm increasing these to 25mm so am going to fit spacers that bolt to the hub and then the studs screw into the spacers. There are a multitude of different spec OEM Clio suspension set-ups and wheel offsets, but on my OEM F1's I wouldn't be able to run 25mm spacers on the front without I'm guessing -2 degrees camber. I'm running -3 and still have a bit of clearance hence fitting the 30mm's.

The Eibach and H&R spacers are all alloy.
​

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhh cool cheers mate - I run 2118's in the ET43 offset so they sit 5mm further in than normal wheels anyway - and I'm running -2.75 of camber
So 25mm front spacers should be fine

 

[Space Cadet]

I think you'll be fine then. I think my original OEM F1's are ET43, so you must either have wider track suspension or wheel offset from standard for the 43's to decrease the track width. Like I said, there are a multitude of different OEM set-ups/offsets.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I think the cup wheels were originally ET38

I may have got that the wrong way round - I know mine are 5mm too far in though lol

 

[Space Cadet]

I think the actual mechanical suspension track may be wider on the Cup, but then this is allowed for by having less offset wheels. If you have fitted PH1 ET43 wheels then you have actually increased your total track width. Which isn't a bad thing but you will have to keep an eye on clearance. Theoretically you now have an extra 5mm each side of track width that me (without spacers), but I'm going to be fitting 30mm spacers so you should end up being be identical with 25mm's.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm so confused I thought the higher the ET the further in they sat
I was definitely told when I bought the 2118's that they would sit further in

There's at least a 15-20mm gap between the tyres and the outer arch - the wheels on the back actually scrub the inner arches

 

[Space Cadet]

Yes sorry you're right, I got myself all mixed-up there!! The less the number offset the greater they will stick out from the hub. So you will have reduced your overall track width by fitting the F1's but can then make this up by fitting the spacers.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Cool cheers - I think I'll order some 25mm ones

 

[EVOgone]

Interesting i have 15mm spacers on the front of mine and the PMS studs are no where near long enough. Will be sending them back and getting some 100mm long studs.

The quality looks go though so bit of a shame. Plus the cup racer run mutli thread types so will get some studs that have M12x1.25mm thread so i dont need new nuts.!

 

[Space Cadet]

My 20mm non-bolt-to-hub (Type A) spacers will be off the car this weekend if they're any good to anyone else? (FYI Type B spacers are the bolt to hub version)

I was running these on the rears and there was plenty of the PM studs left.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Evogone, maybe your wheels are thicker at the point the stud goes through?
Or you have ally brake bells which are thicker?
​Either that or yours must be different length studs to other people's somehow.

 

[EVOgone]

Evogone, maybe your wheels are thicker at the point the stud goes through?
Or you have ally brake bells which are thicker?
​Either that or yours must be different length studs to other people's somehow.

Speedline Turini Cup racer ET43 and maybe the bell is thinker slightly but there no where near enough thread where i would be confortable with using.

 

[Space Cadet]

I've got Alcon 4-Pots with seperate bells & rotors and as far as I know the bells are not any thicker than normal and the studs dont look to screw in any further.

 

[EVOgone]

I've got Alcon 4-Pots with seperate bells & rotors and as far as I know the bells are not any thicker than normal and the studs dont look to screw in any further.

Do you run 295mm discs ? as my caliper wont fit without the spacers. Ifi ran a 280 mm disc then i could possibley run with out the spacer.

 

[Space Cadet]

Do you run 295mm discs ? as my caliper wont fit without the spacers. Ifi ran a 280 mm disc then i could possibley run with out the spacer.

It's not clear if you mean if the calliper will hit the back of the spokes or the inside of the wheel. There are so many permeations that I think its all trial and error. I used to run 295mm rotors with my old Willwoods but could only fit 290mm (I think) rotors with my Alcons because the calliper is so much larger. Even then there is only may be 2mm gap between the calliper and the inside of the wheel. As to clearing the back of the spokes I think I had the 25mm spacers fitted at the same time as the Willwoods so I cant comment either way.
​

 

[Chip-mk1]

Spacers effect clearance on the inside of the wheel too, as the outer edge is a smaller diameter than further in, the only way I get away with Tarox 6 pots and 300mm disks is that I have spaced the wheel out far enough to get me away from that smaller diameter outer rim.
I dont think I could get over 280mm with the same calipers and smaller spacers, not cause of the spokes, but cause of the outer rim.

 

[Space Cadet]

Spacers effect clearance on the inside of the wheel too, as the outer edge is a smaller diameter than further in, the only way I get away with Tarox 6 pots and 300mm disks is that I have spaced the wheel out far enough to get me away from that smaller diameter outer rim.
I dont think I could get over 280mm with the same calipers and smaller spacers, not cause of the spokes, but cause of the outer rim.

Thanks Chip, as always yes you're right, at least on F1's as they have a raised lip just behind the spokes. I've subsequently had to fit the wheel weights right on the outside edge of this lip just behind the spokes as otherwise they were clipping the callipers.