Suspension refresh and geo setup

[charltjr]

I know that a lot of the suspension on my 182 cup is knocking on a bit and although it's going through the MoT with no worries it's feeling a little vague and under-damped so I've decided to do a refresh.

So far I've got the following:
Set of OE shocks
Cooksport springs
OE wishbones with balljoints
PMS top mounts and strut brace (probably total overkill with this setup to be fair, got a touch carried away with the shiny bits )
Front camber bolts and a pair of 1 degree rear camber plates

On the suspension refresh side what I'm looking for are suggestions for anything else that would be a good idea to do while the car is already in bits to have that lot thrown at it so that I can save on labour charges, front ARB bushes for example?

I'll be taking it for a full geometry setup once all the work is done so hopefully some big improvements are on the cards.

The car is primarily for trackdays and weekend road use and I don't want to go too far with the track focus, just make it a bit less wallowy (hence the Cooksport springs) and improve my corner speeds. I've already got the whiteline ARB which is set to soft at the moment and I'm running AD08R's. I find the car's balance quite nice, turn-in is good and the cornering balance is still neutral-to-understeer but I've only done three track days so far so that was suiting me fine until now. I'd now like to dial out some of the mid-corner understeer without getting a snappy rear end.

This is my last alignment printout which was done just before I got the car. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a sensible track day/fast road setup? I'm a bit new to actually looking at this myself, usually I just hoik it at a specialist and tell them what I want to achieve. Should I be looking for more camber? There's a place just down the road from me with a full alignment rig but they just set it to stock settings unless you tell them exactly what you want. Or can anyone suggest a good place to get RS suspension setup done in West Berks/Hampshire?

Thanks,
John

 

[Rubicon_]

While mine was in pieces I replaced all the suspension components and then replaced all the bushes with powerflex ones, that included the wishbones, inner and outer ARB and steering rack.

 

[alistairolsen]

Check your wishbones are the later ones with the extra castor, and not the early shopping spec.
Track rod ends are missing from your list and if balljoints are worn, they will be too.
Roll bar bushes as mentioned above
What are your rear beam bushes like? They can have a fairly horrifying effect on the handling that you wont pinpoint until you change them and go "oh!"

 

[charltjr]

I got the wishbones from Renault, part numbers 8200257956 and 8200257957. How can I tell if they're the later parts?

I'll have a look at the rear beam bushes and track rod ends too.

 

[alistairolsen]

Not the best picture as this one is modified, but on the older ones the hole sat inline with the wishbone. On cup versions and later cars the balljoint was canted forward to give more castor.

 

[alistairolsen]

Out of interest, what did the genuine wishbones cost you if you dont mind my asking?

 

[charltjr]

Thanks for that, I had a look at the ones I bought and I can see what you mean. The balljoint is definitely not in a straight line with the wishbone, it's at an slight angle so the mounting point will effectively be pushed forward.

The wishbones were £123 including delivery from Renault Parts Direct (Fish Bros, Swindon).

 

[charltjr]

Just been doing a load of readings about geo setup, talk about a dark art!

I think I'm going to go for normal road toe settings but add some extra negative camber, use the 1 degree plates on the back to get close to 2.5 and set the front to 2.5. Anyone got any comments on that?

Was quite pleased to see how close the rear camber and toe angles are on mine, some other examples I've seen have pretty substantial variations!

 

[StuOwen86]

Here was my setup from blink set too their Track Demon settings. I have camber bolts and just bought a shim to correct the rear toe.

 

[charltjr]

Mine's standard at the moment but once it's on the CookSports am I right in thinking that will take the camber a little more negative? I'm in two minds about whether to put the rear camber plates on or not, they'd probably take it to something in the region of -2 to -2.5 negative rear camber. Too much?

The car is in all honestly used either on track or driving to and from the track for a good 90% of the time. It very occasionally gets some fast road use but I just don't have the time to get it out of the garage that often.

 

[charltjr]

I'm going to leave the rear camber.

I'll give the car -2 degrees negative camber at the front and see how I go. I'm changing too much in one go in terms of suspension and tyres to expect to hit the sweet spot first time out. The suspension refresh and tyres will change the way she drives anyway, so I'll just get a near-OE setup and tweak from there.

Apologies for being the latest in a very long line of people to ask for an answer to a question to which there is no right answer :wink:

Looking forward to getting this lot on the car :smiley:

 

[Cub.]

Whilst mine was in a thousand pieces I did what you said and;

- Track Rods
- Track Rod Ends
- Steering rack bushes
- ARB
- Balljoints

Whilst not cheap, a suspension refresh and decent geo set up is by far one of the best things to do to these. Tightens it up and handles like it should.

 

[charltjr]

Interesting, I was thinking about the track rod ends but hadn't considered the inner track rods. Checking a bit further it seems I really should have Steering rack bushes are cheap and have probably never been done. Looks like I'm ordering a few more new bits.

ARB is already on, balljoints are with the wishbones so that's covered.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[raviedavie]

I'm mid full refresh too
Rear poly shock mounts are worth a shout too.

I've gone new cup shocks front and rear
Cooksports
Poly ARB inner and outer
Poly steering rack bushes
New wishbones
New top mounts
New engine mounts
Poly dogbone mount
Rear poly upper mounts
New track rods and tie rods
4 x rainsport 3's
20mm hubcentric spacers front
10mm stub axle spacers rear
Just wondering if I've missed anything lol

 

[charltjr]

That's more than I'm doing

I'm leaving the engine and dogbone mounts.

These beauties arrived yesterday, just wanted a decent set of cheap used wheels for the track but ended up picking these up brand new for £275. ET 35 so I might look into some spacers.

 

[raviedavie]

Good price !
I've not even started on the list I've done lol. New driveshafts, new battery, new coil pack, new leads, new discs and pads all round, new steering wheel and boss, wheels refurbed, new headlights etc etc I've done just over 5k since October and mines a garage queen and B road blaster :smile:

 

[charltjr]

I got them from www.alloywheels.com - I actually ordered the silver ones but they phoned up and said they'd take three to five days but they had one set of the black ones on the shelf so would I like those for the same price. Wasn't really fussed about the colour, just wanted some decent wheels at a good price so said yes. Strongly suspect it was a "last day of the month, let's get this order processed and out the door" thing.

Pretty damn pleased all in all

 

[StuOwen86]

Nice those wheels are they light? My 2118's are pretty heavy lol the spare set I have with my AD08 on are some multi fit bk racing and they're quite a bit lighter, but I think the 2118 are a rally wheel so pretty strong hence the weight.

 

[charltjr]

Yeah you're right, the 2118's are rally wheels. I wouldn't say these are especially light, I've not got anything to weigh them with though.

 

[charltjr]

All done

Front camber is -2.23 and -2.15, front toe -'8 both sides so -'16 total
Rear toe is a bit to c**k after all the changes at '18 and '2 but I can sort that later with some shims, I want to space the wheels out a bit more anyway.

Car drives really well after all the changes, I'm going to bolt the R888's on this afternoon and bed in the new DS2500's too. I'd really like to thank whoever designed the local roads for giving me a 1 mile stretch of de-restricted A-road with a roundabout at each end. Perfect for putting in the 25 to 30 firm brake applications the DS2500's want.

 

[imprezaworks]

Have you got the wheels fitted? If so any pics

 

[charltjr]

Yes to both

 

[imprezaworks]

Like them mate.

 

[charltjr]

Me too, they're a bit different, should certainly give the brakes room to breathe too.

Tyre fitters messed up the balancing though, hideous vibration at over 50. Give them their due, when I took it back they rebalanced them for free without a murmur and it's all good now.