Tap Tap Tap

[Scutch]

So I've searched and found countless threads on the dreaded tapping and sewing machine noise on the Clio. I remember even fitting a new set of tappets on my Clio Williams (which actually didn't solve the problem). It appears I'm getting a similar noise now on the 182.

The story goes - As the car is lowered, one particularly high speed bump knocked the exhaust joint by the cat and snapped the backbox pipe run. So the car was loud as hell for a day or two. I got this all welded and sorted and a couple of days later I parked up one evening and the car was making an awful tapping noise. I took it to my local garage (former Renault engineer) and he said he was 90% certain it was the hydraulic lifters (tappets). He gave it a full engine flush, oil and filter change. The noise level was certainly reduced but it was still there. Not that bad though. You can't hear it from inside the car, but I know it's there and that's the problem. I get far too annoyed about little noises, creaks or squeaks. Perhaps I shouldn't have bought another Clio with this in mind, but that's my own fault.

The tapping starts when the engine is fired up and idling. As the revs increase, the tapping speeds up, too. What I'm trying to do is go through a list of what it could be and what it couldn't be, so I can try and isolate the problem without having to take it in to be looked at again in a trial and error sense.

The car has done 33k miles and had the belts done 6k miles ago. As said, the tapping only started a few weeks ago - it was absolutely fine before then.

From doing a few searches, it may or may not be :

• Tappets (cam followers/lifters)
• Dephaser pulley
• Spark plugs
• Carbon cannister

Any other suggestions would be of help.

Here's a quick video with the tapping noise. This may not help at all, but I thought I'd try all the same, as some may recognise the sound :



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPua0y1VWw

Any help would be appreciated. Like I say, I don't want to take it to a dealer and have them poke around without actually knowing or being able to pinpoint what the problem is, until I know I have no idea myself.

Cheers guys.

 

[MicKPM]

Videos always make it hard to diagnose noises IMO

I honestly doubt that it needs hydraulic lifters as the F4R uses a totally different, more reliable setup compared to the older F7R. I know you said it had the timing belt done 6k ago but was the dephaser changed? Start cheap and simple; confirm vehicles oil level, condition and system pressure is within tolerance. Then, have the dephaser pulley checked for signs of 'play'.

Mick

 

[Scutch]

Cheers mate.

Could engine mounts also be the cause of the tapping?

 

[MicKPM]

I doubt it and even if they could it wouldn't be a rotational noise that increases with the engine speed.

 

[.Stevo.C.]

My williams done this too mate. Does it go away once the engine is up to running temp? A couple of oil changes got rid of it on the williams.

 

[Scutch]

My williams done this too mate. Does it go away once the engine is up to running temp? A couple of oil changes got rid of it on the williams.

Nope. It's constant now. Like I said it's more of an annoyance than anything else.

If it was the dephaser, isn't the tapping supposed to stop at 1.5k or so? This doesn't.

 

[Gaz_]

Yep, and it won't do it on a cold engine

 

[Liam@redmonkey]

My tapping was caused by the dephaser solenoid quick simple fix Matt at TDF may be able to correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Scutch]

Yep, and it won't do it on a cold engine

Why is this, out of interest?

For the record, mine taps from cold. As said above, it was pretty bad until the oil and engine flush. Now it's not so bad but still there which is the problem.

 

[Scutch]

My tapping was caused by the dephaser solenoid quick simple fix Matt at TDF may be able to correct me if I'm wrong

I presume this is a lot cheaper a solution. Going to take if to Renault tomorrow but just for advice.

 

[Gaz_]

Why is this, out of interest?

For the record, mine taps from cold. As said above, it was pretty bad until the oil and engine flush. Now it's not so bad but still there which is the problem.

I'd imagine with the oil being cold, its thicker, which takes up the 'play', therfore no rattling. I had a faulty dephaser on my cup, and ad you mention, above 1800 rpm the rattling disappears.

 

[Joe R26]

My noise is noway near as tappy as that. But mine also makes the noise from cold. But I'm sure mines dephaser?. confusing.

 

[Scutch]

My noise is noway near as tappy as that. But mine also makes the noise from cold. But I'm sure mines dephaser?. confusing.

Dephaser apparently shouldn't make the noise from cold, only when it's warmed up.

Could it maybe be a lead off a spark plug is loose? Worth checking. I'll be doing the same on mine over the next few days when I'm trying to diagnose the problem. I hope it's not the lifters or the dephaser, as both are an expensive repair.

 

[Joe R26]

So they say. Mine definately sounds funny from cold. My noise is definatly coming from the camshaft area!. more so on the timing side. So I can only think it is dephaser.

 

[Scutch]

Mine is just the tapping which is annoying. It's honestly not as bad as the video makes it out to be, but any foreign noise is a bad noise. It's also coming from the right hand side of the engine, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Joe R26]

Thing is mine sounds like this

[video]http://youtu.be/Jy1teWk1UH8[/video]

Just not as loud yet, and his was definatly dephaser. I've pm'd him to see if it done it from cold. but it sounds nothing like yours.

 

[Scutch]

Yeah that's definitely more of a rattle than a tapping.

 

[Revels]

Doesn't sound like the dephaser to me. Based on how mine sounded.

 

[Scutch]

Doesn't sound like the dephaser to me. Based on how mine sounded.

Cheers Dan. It's these things I'm trying to isolate and check off the list. Folk are saying it shouldn't be the lifters either, but it's got that tappety sound.

Also, I find it more than a coincidence that when my exhaust was fixed, a few days later the tapping started. Could the high speed bump have maybe knocked or damaged something to cause the tapping? The car was running and sounding perfect prior to the centre section coming away from the cat. Hmm.

 

[bmh.01]

Not the injectors clicking is it? My 172 ones were terribly noisey.

 

[MicKPM]

Injectors can be noisey as per BMH's post above but I doubt they'd be that noisey that you could hear it as per the video but again that is just my opinion. Similarly, a faulty dephaser pulley can and does rattle from cold start and/or at idle speeds and whilst some make the car sound like a diesel others only make a minor tap and it depends how far along the damaged component is. It takes 15-20 minutes to check this and I can't get why you haven't done this yet... Ooh, how did the trip to Renault go for "Advice" (I bet they said something along the lines of "book it in to the workshop and we'll take a look")?

You wouldn't believe how many of these cars I've seen over the years that have had sumps and top covers put back and re-sealed with silicone... with similar issues to. Whilst there's nothing wrong with the application of silicone in these areas by capable hands (that apply it sparingly) silicone is not the approved sealant compound as it sets irregardless of the environment its in and so when it gets slapped on say for example the top cover joint the internal overspill gets dragged in to the oil system. It then breaks down and finds it way back in to the sump via the oilways which then in turn finds its way to the strainer gauze in the oil pump causing either a minor or major blockage at the pickup thus faffing up the oil pressure which causes knocking and/or even eventual engine death due to starvation.

The noise is, once again and according to the description in the original post, rotational as it increases and decreases with engine speed... this IMHO kinda rules out an exhaust issue being the cause. Have you done anything that was posted above yet; dephaser checked along with oil pressure and dephaser solenoid? If not, you're looking for the holy grail mate as you will not get an accurate diagnosis on this issue by guess work alone and not getting in that engine bay! It needs looking at by someone that knows what they're doing as it could be nothing to worry about and turn out to be a noisey bearing on the aux-belt run but it could also be the makings of something serious as per my example above. I'm not being intentionally twatish toward you but you've asked for advice which has been given and by continuing to ask questions about what else it could be say's to me you appear to have simply ignored it as it costs money or involves effort to follow up on.

Mick

 

[bmh.01]

[youtube]-_k4Q4mBwGM[/youtube]

You can hear them on that video sounds very similar to me, and it 110% was the injectors before anyone says.

 

[MicKPM]

I'm not dismissing it being something like this BMH (Sorry, I don't know your name) but in truth we're all guessing as we can't see or hear the car properly to give a genuine diagnosis. Recordings are never ideal as they always over emphasize treble and an oil flush/change wouldn't make injector noises reduce would it? This is why I wanted him to get it looked at properly so as to rule out something nasty vs something easy before it ended with a "Vrrrrmmmm Thunk" noise aka bent valves and tears.

Mick

 

[Christopher]

Definitely not the dephaser, that sounds totally different.

 

[bmh.01]

I'm not dismissing it being something like this BMH (Sorry, I don't know your name) but in truth we're all guessing as we can't see or hear the car properly to give a genuine diagnosis. Recordings are never ideal as they always over emphasize treble and an oil flush/change wouldn't make injector noises reduce would it? This is why I wanted him to get it looked at properly so as to rule out something nasty vs something easy before it ended with a "Vrrrrmmmm Thunk" noise aka bent valves and tears.

Mick

I agree completely, different pieces of equipment will record the same sound differently etc. Just sounded very similar for what its worth. It's Ben btw.

 

[Scutch]

Injectors can be noisey as per BMH's post above but I doubt they'd be that noisey that you could hear it as per the video but again that is just my opinion. Similarly, a faulty dephaser pulley can and does rattle from cold start and/or at idle speeds and whilst some make the car sound like a diesel others only make a minor tap and it depends how far along the damaged component is. It takes 15-20 minutes to check this and I can't get why you haven't done this yet... Ooh, how did the trip to Renault go for "Advice" (I bet they said something along the lines of "book it in to the workshop and we'll take a look")?

You wouldn't believe how many of these cars I've seen over the years that have had sumps and top covers put back and re-sealed with silicone... with similar issues to. Whilst there's nothing wrong with the application of silicone in these areas by capable hands (that apply it sparingly) silicone is not the approved sealant compound as it sets irregardless of the environment its in and so when it gets slapped on say for example the top cover joint the internal overspill gets dragged in to the oil system. It then breaks down and finds it way back in to the sump via the oilways which then in turn finds its way to the strainer gauze in the oil pump causing either a minor or major blockage at the pickup thus faffing up the oil pressure which causes knocking and/or even eventual engine death due to starvation.

The noise is, once again and according to the description in the original post, rotational as it increases and decreases with engine speed... this IMHO kinda rules out an exhaust issue being the cause. Have you done anything that was posted above yet; dephaser checked along with oil pressure and dephaser solenoid? If not, you're looking for the holy grail mate as you will not get an accurate diagnosis on this issue by guess work alone and not getting in that engine bay! It needs looking at by someone that knows what they're doing as it could be nothing to worry about and turn out to be a noisey bearing on the aux-belt run but it could also be the makings of something serious as per my example above. I'm not being intentionally tw*tish toward you but you've asked for advice which has been given and by continuing to ask questions about what else it could be say's to me you appear to have simply ignored it as it costs money or involves effort to follow up on.

Mick

Cheers for that Mick. Renault only opened again today so I was asking questions and not getting it looked at because of that very reason.

I took it in today and one of the mechanics had a quick 5 minute listen. Purely as a guess he suggested it could be a spark plug issue. The lead engineer was off today.

I think I'll book it in with my usual mechanic later this week and get him to check for play in the belt and also to check the plugs.

When you mentioned the sump, could the speed bump I hit maybe have knocked something down there, eventually causing the tapping?

As also mentioned, the noise really has been falsely amplified by the video clip. It's certainly not as bad as that makes it out to be.

Thanks for the comments guys.

 

[MicKPM]

If the sump had been knocked to the point of it causing an audible 'tap' it would most likely have cracked it dropping its oil everywhere... doubt it'll be this.

 

[NATHAN182]

hi, sorry to hi jack this thread, my clio has developed a small tapping noise, i can only hear it when im in the car but its definately coming from the engine. it doesnt do it when its cold and does it intermittantly when its warm.
goes quicker with higher revs.
the idle seems very lumpy also and abit hesitant.
was thinking.....
.dephaser
.ht leads
.injectors
someone mentioned solenoid for dephaser and carbon canister but dont know what these are.
any ideas plz plz let me know PM me

 

[dean172]

Hello mate,

Did you find out what the problem was?

Cheers

 

[NickOliver182]

Got same problem with mine now been told its the tappets by a couple of local gargages but im convinced its the dephaser.

it was a very slight ticking to start with which i put down to cams but has got louder all of a sudden.

 

[Fred@BTM]

sounds like a dephaser to me, they don't all do the same classic noise, you do get some odd ones, and if they're really fucked they do make a noise from cold

 

[MicKPM]

Got same problem with mine now been told its the tappets by a couple of local gargages but im convinced its the dephaser.

it was a very slight ticking to start with which i put down to cams but has got louder all of a sudden.

Tappets... they're always an easy item to blame and its rare, no, very rare they cause an issue on the F4R engine... Fred's no doubt right but obviously a quick check of the inlet cam via the setting point will say for sure if there's play in the assembly.

Mick

 

[Gaz_]

Tappets are quite a popular diagnosis in the North West i'm lead to believe

 

[Jonny1*2]

sounds like a dephaser to me, they don't all do the same classic noise, you do get some odd ones, and if they're really fucked they do make a noise from cold

Can vouch for that mine was really bad. Car nearly stalling, sounded like a tractor from cold. Better to be safe than sorry

 

[Cookson]

I cant hear the vid at work, but you sure the exhaust gasket hasnt gone on the manifold?

They can make a tapping noise

 

[mikekean]

Cracked camshaft lobe is also a possibility, happened on my car. Heard of it happening on a few others too.

 

[The Fatty]

From the video, that sound like a spark plug issue... easy weay to tell is to remove 1 plug at a time and run the engine for a very short time. If the tapping goes away when a certain plug is removed, then it could either be a HT leak or the piston head is touching the plug end. You can also do the HT leak test by just disconnecting the HT lead from the coilpack (1at a time).

 

[NickOliver182]

Taking It down to a specialist on Monday to have a look at so hopefully I can find out what the problem is.

It seems to make more noise when its cold and quietens down a bit when its warmed up to?

Not felt any power loss or the car nearly stalling though.

 

[robbygraham]

sounds how mine was a few days back, had been gradually getting louder over the last few weeks, took it to renault (only cause a relative works there, otherwise would have gone rentech) and they told me that its a normal noise for the engine to be making and said its the injectors, i don't think it is cause it wouldnt just start from being quiet then get louder over a few weeks

 

[Tombola]

Mine sounded like that back in March, dephaser.