The possible plans for my car? Please give some views.

[edde]

OK the reason behing this is written below but opinions please

Got this idea of sticking a new engine in my car (VAG 1.9 TDi last generation system not PD)

For simplicity dump the UCH and electronis keep the stock ABS etc just make a stand along system for the indicators etc and use stock VAG system.

Since my car will very soon be out of warently and with 90k on the clock being as my cars had such a hard life I'm worried its not long before something fails on it. Injectors and or pump are a likly problem and with the stupid high cost of them I'm already stressed out as soon as one goes the other won't be far behind and £1k bill for the whole setup is a bit much IMO plus there the aditional worries of UCH etc failing and leaving me stranded without a car.

Parents have offered me there old car for free so I have a car for the time being plus got a suitably sized garage to do the work and parents arn't that against the idea (I'm not sure they know what it means to do a transplant)

I've got a fair few bits and pieces sorted in my mind

Stock brakes and ABS (keep stock dash so only need to have the output from the ECU for it and the TDC)

Bin the UCH get a used UCh plugs and have a wired up plug in replacment unit no UCH issues so no need to touch dash loom imobiliser will be shut off on the old system since there no ECU plus the new system VAG ECU would have it switched off and have the alarm activated.

Not sorted the central locking maybe just bin the system and use an alarm to do it.

Use a 6 speed box (I just want one) even if the 5 speeds easier and fits.

Stock shafts with VAG inners.

Suspension shoulnd't be a huge issue get the battery in the boot for weight etc then see maybe just some higher poundage springs save the hastle of coilovers.

So come on people drive some sence into me I'm not even sure whats I want to do.

 

[Graham Gooch]

Isn't the VAG 1.9 diesel, stupidly heavy?

 

[edde]

Isn't the VAG 1.9 diesel, stupidly heavy?

Its not to light yep but with some weight removal (battery in boot plus maybe washer bottle in there) should't be to bad won't be much different than the 1.8T (same block size) and thats been used before now.

1.5 isn't that light.

 

[Djw John]

Im sure a 5 speed would make more sense and why are you fussed about ABS? It seem extra work for not much return.

I like the sound of the engine though, I know theres no point trying to persuade you to go for a petrol!

 

[Graham Gooch]

Will make a very good car.

I know of someone running a 1.5 turbo diesel in a citroen AX, now that flys LOL!

 

[C.slicker]

I am sure someone like Edde and Fred will be along soon to help out...

 

[al]

I like the idea edde

 

[edde]

Im sure a 5 speed would make more sense and why are you fussed about ABS? It seem extra work for not much return.

I like the sound of the engine though, I know theres no point trying to persuade you to go for a petrol!

I do to many miles to make a 172 etc transplant work out. Plus might as well just buy one.

I like ABS I do a fair few miles in all weathers so its a handy plus it powers the speedo plus the stereo for there sound so that a nice touch for simplicity. Plus its stand alone system.

I'd like the 6 speed ideal the early Fabias one (with an even longer final drive) would let me get away with a nice low 2k at 80mph for economy. (plus gives me to top end which the car could handle)

 

[edde]

I know of someone running a 1.5 turbo diesel in a citroen AX, now that flys LOL!

Yep not a bad engine realy that one for what it is.


I need some convincing what to do maybe a better idea is to get a second Clio (a cheap crashed one) and make it all fit buttcher its looms and get it working them do a swop since the looms are plug and play into my car shell.

 

[Blue4Ever]

I am sure someone like Edde and Fred will be along soon to help out...

haha. look closely lad!

 

[C.slicker]

I am sure someone like Edde and Fred will be along soon to help out...

haha. look closely lad!

lol I did see that just after I typed it!

Btw Edde sounds like a good plan, but how have you put soo many miles on it?!

 

[edde]

I am sure someone like Edde and Fred will be along soon to help out...

haha. look closely lad!

I think he did.

 

[TomTom]

90k isn't that much for a K9k edde but understandable what your saying about parts starting to wear out and injectors/pump like you say, not the cheapest. 1.4/1.6 owners should count themselves lucky they only have to payout £36 or for a coil!

I take it you want a change aswell as a bit bored of the dci then, even a vag 1.9 it'd be a bit of a monster even without a rail. Have you found out if you could modify (gas bottles & a sledgehammer) a TL4, or even ND0 to a K9k yet or even wait for a new crash damage K9k 6 speed & buy the engine & box, and MAKE it fit?

What exaclty would you need for the TDI engine anyway, engine, box, ECU, what harnesses would you need, as you say it'd make sense to use the standard uch etc for all the interior but wouldn't it get a bit complicated especially as you need a car that goes everytime for work etc

 

[edde]

haha. look closely lad!

lol I did see that just after I typed it!

Btw Edde sounds like a good plan, but how have you put soo many miles on it?!

Live a fair way from work, then there holidays abroad which add up I estimated 10% of my milage had been done abroad at one point. ANd since the cars cheap to run realy going down south for the weekend no issue.

 

[edde]

90k isn't that much for a K9k edde but understandable what your saying about parts starting to wear out and injectors/pump like you say,

I take it you want a change aswell as a bit bored of the dci then, even a vag 1.9 it'd be a bit of a monster even without a rail. Have you found out if you could modify (gas bottles & a sledgehammer) a TL4, or even ND0 to a K9k yet or even wait for a new crash damage K9k 6 speed & buy the engine & box, and MAKE it fit?

What exaclty would you need for the TDI engine anyway, engine, box, ECU, what harnesses would you need, as you say it'd make sense to use the standard uch etc for all the interior but wouldn't it get a bit complicated especially as you need a car that goes everytime for work etc

Priced up some injectors and lines (as you know they should be change) and the cost was shocking £350 or so I think thats for one.

I'm not bored with the power but the old TDI is much lower pressure there tunning bits easier out there use the PD130/150 compressor and GT17 (110hp VAg TDI) turbine section and it would make 1.6 or so boost which with a 11mm pump and some injectors I found for sale in the US will make a very very safe (ie what VAG would warently the engine at) 160hp or so. Going a bit mad over 200hp would be possible easy with just that setup reasonably safly.

Not keen on any of the Renault boxes the VAG's nice and simple its got the proven strenght.

I do like the idea of the 106 dci with its box but I don't like the change plus its not that high ratio realy. would need to change the final drive plus its limited strenght at 240Nm which the 106 does stock plus leaves me with a high pressure system again. I recon fitment would be easy though just have to sort either a Mk2 V6 bedal box (hydrolic brakes and clutch plus electric throttle. Or make an adapter so the hydrolic clutch works after the cable.

For the swop would idealy need the whole front end and dash to check wires as I've not got there loom diagrams yet (might have found a source though)but for definate need the ECU and get the imobiliser removed cheaply the engine loom, fuel pump and thats about it.

I was thinking jusnk the UCH its only trouble at the end of the day plus only sets warning lights off make your own wiring for the lights etc I've got the pin outs for the UCH just get a second hand UCH unsolder the old computer board and wire up relays etc onto it.

 

[TomTom]

Going a bit mad over 200hp would be possible easy with just that setup reasonably safly.

Bloody hell thats fairly impressive to be fair, would be worth that just to pust 182s to the side of the road

I do like the idea of the 106 dci with its box but I don't like the change plus its not that high ratio realy. would need to change the final drive plus its limited strenght at 240Nm which the 106 does stock plus leaves me with a high pressure system again

Yeah its the same box as the 197, and in 6th that does 70mph @ about 3800rpm!! Bloody useless. *edit- the 197 that is*

So basically your after a lower pressure jobby that can handle more tuning without blowing turbos/clutch/pump/injectors and does 120mph idling in 6th

Anythings possible but the wiring could be a bit of a nightmare, let me know if you get them wiring diags too. Personally I'd go for the crash damage 1.5 106bhp & TL4 dunno why, just seems easier to change lol

 

[edde]

Bloody hell thats fairly impressive to be fair, would be worth that just to pust 182s to the side of the road

I do like the idea of the 106 dci with its box but I don't like the change plus its not that high ratio realy. would need to change the final drive plus its limited strenght at 240Nm which the 106 does stock plus leaves me with a high pressure system again

Yeah its the same box as the 197, and in 6th that does 70mph @ about 3800rpm!! Bloody useless. *edit- the 197 that is*

So basically your after a lower pressure jobby that can handle more tuning without blowing turbos/clutch/pump/injectors and does 120mph idling in 6th

Anythings possible but the wiring could be a bit of a nightmare, let me know if you get them wiring diags too. Personally I'd go for the crash damage 1.5 106bhp & TL4 dunno why, just seems easier to change lol

200hp should be quite easy (I've found injectors which on stock injectors window would make 180hp so infact I'd have to reduce the window on a 160hp car) the torque would be what would limit me don't want to push more than 300lb though one of there boxes as thats the official limit. The 5 speeds about 25% lower official limit however VAG boxes do take way more. 320lb is about the 5 speeds limit before they seem to shread teeth. Plus some owners have now realised the limits VAG have stated are too be remembered as one or two boxes have started to break.

The wiring diagrams not a huge trouble the Clio ones would have been a bigger challenge to get I belive if I hadn't got them already.

Yep your right I'm after a lower risk engine with lower rpm I'm doing about 550 a week at the moment (since September) so as you can probaly guess thats sitting on the motorway a lot the 65 is revs a bit high for this.

120 at idle hum nice was thinking more like 40mph per 1 k in top (Fabia long ratio early box with say 10% longer final drive since the Cios much lighter and would ahve the extra power to let you and sill drive the same as such. Thats 160 assuming 4k which isn't going to happen with stock 160hp but 200hp should be, Roamer got 165 on the GPS with 212hp I belive.


I'm just not sure though.

 

[Maz]

^ if your not sure dont do it

 

[Cookie]

Just go and buy a VAG diesel with less miles than the Clio, less hassle

 

[edde]

Just go and buy a VAG diesel with less miles than the Clio, less hassle

Don't like the handling of them. Plus there much more expensive.

 

[C.slicker]

Edde do you think the handling of the clio is good?

I haven't driven mcuh else to compare it to but all write ups seem to say it doesn't handle awesomely. Btw before you get in a strop RS guys, I am talking about non-rs clios here.

Sam

 

[edde]

Edde do you think the handling of the clio is good?

I haven't driven mcuh else to compare it to but all write ups seem to say it doesn't handle awesomely. Btw before you get in a strop RS guys, I am talking about non-rs clios here.

I do enjoy the Clio plus I like my car its been with me for ages cannot bear to sell it for no reason realy.

The handling isn't the same as a 172/182 but there not a huge amount in it IMO I could away change the remaining bit on my car ie hubs brakes rear axle ARB and wishbones for 172/182 at a later date then all that would be missing is the stearing rack for feedback but on the whole I'm happy enough.

I feel a lot can be done with stock setup run more camber etc but for a safe day to day etc setup its fine I don't want to start leaving it will a load of camber making it a bit more alive at the limit.

 

[GordonD]

Edde, how about this for an alternative: convert your Clio Sport to natural gas.

We have a company here that's trying to get a natural gas (or LPG) power setup onto the market. It feeds the signal from the car's ECU to its petrol injectors to a computer that converts it to the right size and duration pulse to a gas injector to feeds the equivalent amount of that into the engine. So the ECU thinks the car's still running on petrol, and uses the same map and same feedback from the lambda sensor, and all the same connections to all the other computers in the car, but its running on gas.

http://www.gas-injection.com/

Why do that? Because natural gas is way cheaper than anything else. Don't know what it is in the UK, but here its the equivalent of 5 cents, thats about 2p, for the equivalent of a litre of petrol.

But it takes some engineering to make it work, and that's the sort of thing you could do. What you got to fit in somewhere is either another set of injectors if you wants to be able to switch to petrol, or fit the different injectors in instead of the petrol injectors if you want it to only be able to run on gas.

Power? The same or better on a high compression engine like the Clio Sport.

Emissions? Better.

The gas? You fill up from your home supply. You have a compressor at home that refills you in-boot gas tank from the house supply overnight.

The shortcoming? Only a couple of hundred kilometres range on a tank.

It wouldn't give you a six-speed gearbox. But it'd give you way lower running cost than diesel, and maybe its a conversion you could sell. There's got to be a market in a country where petrol costs as much as it does in Britain for a car that runs on a fuel that costs pennies a litre-equivalent.

I know what I'd like to be able to do. Have a spare-tyre sized gas tank in the spare wheel wheel connected by a dry-break connection. So for round town short-range trips I'd run on 2p a litre-equivalent home gas. And when I was going on a trip that was longer than the range of tank I'd pull it out, drop in the spare wheel, switch over to petrol and run on that.

 

[edde]

Edde, how about this for an alternative: convert your Clio Sport to natural gas.

We have a company here that's trying to get a natural gas (or LPG) power setup onto the market. It feeds the signal from the car's ECU to its petrol injectors to a computer that converts it to the right size and duration pulse to a gas injector to feeds the equivalent amount of that into the engine. So the ECU thinks the car's still running on petrol, and uses the same map and same feedback from the lambda sensor, and all the same connections to all the other computers in the car, but its running on gas.

http://www.gas-injection.com/

Why do that? Because natural gas is way cheaper than anything else. Don't know what it is in the UK, but here its the equivalent of 5 cents, thats about 2p, for the equivalent of a litre of petrol.

But it takes some engineering to make it work, and that's the sort of thing you could do. What you got to fit in somewhere is either another set of injectors if you wants to be able to switch to petrol, or fit the different injectors in instead of the petrol injectors if you want it to only be able to run on gas.

Power? The same or better on a high compression engine like the Clio Sport.

Emissions? Better.

The gas? You fill up from your home supply. You have a compressor at home that refills you in-boot gas tank from the house supply overnight.

The shortcoming? Only a couple of hundred kilometres range on a tank.

It wouldn't give you a six-speed gearbox. But it'd give you way lower running cost than diesel, and maybe its a conversion you could sell. There's got to be a market in a country where petrol costs as much as it does in Britain for a car that runs on a fuel that costs pennies a litre-equivalent.

I know what I'd like to be able to do. Have a spare-tyre sized gas tank in the spare wheel wheel connected by a dry-break connection. So for round town short-range trips I'd run on 2p a litre-equivalent home gas. And when I was going on a trip that was longer than the range of tank I'd pull it out, drop in the spare wheel, switch over to petrol and run on that.

I own a diesel at the moment though so whiulst lpg does work on a diesel by helping and buring so you can make more power the high injector pressures would be a pain plus I'm still left with the risk of an expensive set of injectors which can fail and no lower rpm on the motorway.

The 172/182 arn't exactly high compression you'd be better off using a turbo engine then have mapds made so it runs higher boosta dnpowe since LGP has a better RON rating so won't det.

Its an idea though use a 172/182 engine (would prefere a Honda K series with box though) and use this setup.

 

[Middo]

sounds like it's gonna be a beast edde. I'm with you on the diesel, from the ones i've been in they just feel much quicker and more fun to drive, really would be an interesting conversion

 

[TomTom]

Edde do you think the handling of the clio is good?

I haven't driven mcuh else to compare it to but all write ups seem to say it doesn't handle awesomely. Btw before you get in a strop RS guys, I am talking about non-rs clios here.

Sam

1.2s have different suspension, bushes etc and steering ratio to 1.4, 1.5, 1.6s.

I'm guessing yours isn't a dynamique either, as they don't have sport suspension - unless its a 1.4/1.5/1.6 etc

 

[C.slicker]

Oh right so in theory the 1.2 should be noticeably worse to drive?

Yeah - mine is a 1.2 dynamique 16v.

Sam

 

[Graham Gooch]

Wouldn't you ideally need a custom suspension setup, after all Renault did set the car up for the weight of the 1.5 dci

 

[al]

Oh right so in theory the 1.2 should be noticeably worse to drive?

It is yes, even the 1.2 16v Dynamique is worse than the 1.4/1.6.

 

[Peperami]

Sell it, buy a better, newer car.

 

[TomTom]

Oh right so in theory the 1.2 should be noticeably worse to drive?

Yeah - mine is a 1.2 dynamique 16v.

Sam

Bushes etc in the heavier engines account for the weight etc and that, but its not that noticable say compared to a 1.4.

Ralph the K9ks are a heavy beast for 65 hp. The block itself isnt too bad but add pump, rails, injectors, egr theres loads of added weight, they've got uprated bushes to account for the weight.

*Edit - tying in with what Al said, if you drove a 1.6 Dynamique, then jumped in a 1.2 (any trim level) you'd notice the canal barge style handling

 

[C.slicker]

Canal barge handling on a 1.2?

 

[al]

if you drove a 1.6 Dynamique, then jumped in a 1.2 (any trim level) you'd notice the canal barge style handling

Canal barge handling on a 1.2?

Yup

 

[C.slicker]

Al is yours a 1.2?

You seem to hate the things!

 

[Gaz_]

Sell it, buy a better, newer car.

the truth!!!

 

[philmots]

haha. look closely lad!

lol I did see that just after I typed it!

Btw Edde sounds like a good plan, but how have you put soo many miles on it?!

you could of passed that off as some really understated sarcasm then and it would of been much better!

 

[Fred@BTM]

i wouldn't do it edde, sell the car and buy another

there's someone putting the VAG1.9 engine into a westfield at the moment

 

[edde]

Wouldn't you ideally need a custom suspension setup, after all Renault did set the car up for the weight of the 1.5 dci

Well new springs and dampers yep but you could hopefully get away with using stock dampers and maybe just uprated springs which are cheap to have made and some weight reduction. The 2.0 Alloys block TDI would be one option as its way lighter but not sure its head will match to the 1.9 block it should do don't fancy trying to get the PD 2.0 16V head to work stand along plus I'm still left with injectors I don't like or trust.

Sell it, buy a better, newer car.

i wouldn't do it edde, sell the car and buy another

there's someone putting the VAG1.9 engine into a westfield at the moment

I think sellings out the question maybe a second car and so hence least one will be reliable is an idea Always fancied a bit of MX5 ownership going to have a look tomorrow at the dealers.

The VAG TDi westfields been done before its even been fitted to a TT and a helicopter before now.