To strip and track: Ph2, Ph2 Cup, Ph1?

[Skeeter]

Hi all

I have convinced myself (it didnt take much) that once my GF finds a job and we get settled, which should be soon, I want to track day a RS Clio. I just need to decide which one.

Currently I have a Phase 2 172 pretty much as standard. Its probably worth about £2500 if I were to sell it. I have been thinking about selling it and getting a phase 1 as they are cheaper and it frees up some cash, but then there's the hassle of selling and finding the right car, etc. I also though about changing for a 172 Cup as they are already lighter and I think have better suspension, although that would probably be changed anyway. Chances are I would by a Mondeo or something for a daily and the Clio would become a pure toy, possibly even trailered to avoid tax/insurance costs. So looks like my options are:

A) Keep my current Ph2 172 and then strip that and track it. It wouldn't mean any selling/buying of cars, but would require saving a bit to afford the mods

B) Sell the 172 and buy a 172 Cup. They are a bit cheaper, so it could free up a small amount of cash, but also has the lighter starting point. Is the Cup significantly better than the standard car enough to warrant swapping?

C) Sell the 172 and buy a Ph1 which will free up a lot more cash, but goes back to an older car, and again has the hassle of buying/selling etc.

What would you do?

Cheers

 

[maynard]

A.

Improve on what you've got imo.

 

[mark123]

Keep what you've got.

 

[marinemackay2003]

keep what you have and spend a llittle bit on suspension,tyres and brakes imo

no point selling just to get another

 

[maynard]

keep what you have and spend a llittle bit on suspension,tyres and brakes imo

no point selling just to get another

these are the three most important things, and then strippage for some free weight loss.

 

[Skeeter]

Yeah. The plan is change to 15" wheels for the 50% cheaper tyres, new pads/discs (on the front at least) and then some different suspension of some sort. Then strip the inside and fit buckets.

Selling and buying another would free up some cash though... Although I expect I could sell my interior and 16" wheels for a bit...

 

[ForceIndia]

Was in a similar situation (having owned 2x ph2 172's, a 182cup and a Trophy). Ended up selling a ph2 172 and the Trophy to get a ph1 and do lots of work to it. Never, ever regretted it. The ph1 is lighter as standard, has much better throttle response (ignore the ph2 ladies that deny this, having owned 4 ph2's it's fact!!), and just full stop feels more eager. Some cracking bargains about, the ph2 just isn't as good for track work.

Mild stripping (rear seats and boot carpet out, reclining buckets up front) saw mine just under a ton. A ph2 would need more work to hit that. Ph1's come on 15's (far cheaper for track).

I love them all, but for the use you've described it has to be the ph1 172!

(And don't skimp on the suspension!!)

 

[ForceIndia]

Would love to keep it, but it'll be gone in a week or so

 

[DannoTheGreat]

I'd keep the one you've got an strip it! Never know, you might end up buyin a dog of another car an end up costing you stupid amounts

 

[jenic]

I'd keep the one you've got an strip it! Never know, you might end up buyin a dog of another car an end up costing you stupid amounts

This.

Unless yours is a dog, then get rid lol

 

[ForceIndia]

If it's going to be used regularly on track, it'll end up costing you when things go wrong. Which they will. So cheapest is best!

 

[Revels]

I'd keep the one you've got an strip it! Never know, you might end up buyin a dog of another car an end up costing you stupid amounts

Not only that, but if you say your Ph2 is only worth £2500, you're barely going to save anything by buying a Ph1.

You don't need to strip a car to have fun in it on track. Not at all. Having it as a weekend toy makes it a pretty expensive thing when you've got to tax/insure something else.

Decent suspension, better tyres and upgrade the brakes. Then have some tuition. Then fun. You'll get far more out of it that way. Stripping it etc, it will seem like you're going faster because you hear everything, but in the real world, you'll get a few mph extra at certain points maybe, depending on the track. You're not competing or timing (or at least you shouldn't be) so the sole aim is to have a bit of fun. You can do that will a full interior without massive extra costs.

Too many people make a track car because it seems the 'cool' thing to do. Not a dig at you, but have a few goes first, the bug might bite and then you decide that you can't go on track without weighing all your clothes to see what's lightest, shaving all your body hair and having a massive s**t, or you might just enjoy it, then drive home with the aircon on and hte tunes blazing and not want to be a full on track day guru.

 

[ForceIndia]

Not only that, but if you say your Ph2 is only worth £2500, you're barely going to save anything by buying a Ph1.

You don't need to strip a car to have fun in it on track. Not at all. Having it as a weekend toy makes it a pretty expensive thing when you've got to tax/insure something else.

Decent suspension, better tyres and upgrade the brakes. Then have some tuition. Then fun. You'll get far more out of it that way. Stripping it etc, it will seem like you're going faster because you hear everything, but in the real world, you'll get a few mph extra at certain points maybe, depending on the track. You're not competing or timing (or at least you shouldn't be) so the sole aim is to have a bit of fun. You can do that will a full interior without massive extra costs.

Too many people make a track car because it seems the 'cool' thing to do. Not a dig at you, but have a few goes first, the bug might bite and then you decide that you can't go on track without weighing all your clothes to see what's lightest, shaving all your body hair and having a massive s**t, or you might just enjoy it, then drive home with the aircon on and hte tunes blazing and not want to be a full on track day guru.

All correct tbf. Need to budget £1500 if you want to get decent suspension/brakes etc. Personally, I'd just get a whiteline ARB (£150ish), pads/discs/lines (<£200), and 15's with standard road tyres. You'll be amazed by the ARB. Pound for pound, a bigger improvment than coilovers.

 

[Skeeter]

This.

Unless yours is a dog, then get rid lol

It has started to cost me money. Everything has come at once

Not only that, but if you say your Ph2 is only worth £2500, you're barely going to save anything by buying a Ph1.

You don't need to strip a car to have fun in it on track. Not at all. Having it as a weekend toy makes it a pretty expensive thing when you've got to tax/insure something else.

Decent suspension, better tyres and upgrade the brakes. Then have some tuition. Then fun. You'll get far more out of it that way. Stripping it etc, it will seem like you're going faster because you hear everything, but in the real world, you'll get a few mph extra at certain points maybe, depending on the track. You're not competing or timing (or at least you shouldn't be) so the sole aim is to have a bit of fun. You can do that will a full interior without massive extra costs.

Too many people make a track car because it seems the 'cool' thing to do. Not a dig at you, but have a few goes first, the bug might bite and then you decide that you can't go on track without weighing all your clothes to see what's lightest, shaving all your body hair and having a massive s**t, or you might just enjoy it, then drive home with the aircon on and hte tunes blazing and not want to be a full on track day guru.

For track use I think my biggest need is new seats. Im 6'4" and not skinny, so low fitted buckets will help, as will a smaller steering wheel. If im doing this, it makes sence to remove the rear bench.

the appeal of a phase 1 is to be able to sell mine, buy a phase 1, and have some spare cash from it. Whereas keeping mine means saving.

However, I need things to settle down in my life then assess the situation from there. I do think just some small mods to mine might be a good idea. Wheels definately, 16" tyres are way to expensive! lol.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Would love to keep it, but it'll be gone in a week or so

it will?

 

[jenic]

Have you thought about just doing a track day in yours as it is?

Might aswell before you go making a track focused car.

 

[Skeeter]

Have you thought about just doing a track day in yours as it is?

Might aswell before you go making a track focused car.

This is a plan soon yes. I live near Castle Combe so cant complain I dont have a decent track near by (unless I end up moving).

However, munching a set of 16" tyres is twice as expensive as 15" ones.

Grrr, chicken, egg, cart, horse, etc etc!

 

[jenic]

One trackday wont ruin the tyres mate, just have a go with what you have now and decided what to do then. Just do a half day or evening if you are really worried about wear

 

[Skeeter]

One trackday wont ruin the tyres mate, just have a go with what you have now and decided what to do then. Just do a half day or evening if you are really worried about wear

In not worried about wear, thats part and parcel, im just worried about the cost as I already do 75 miles a day in my Clio.

Dont wanna stick a brand new set of 16" on it and then half their life in an evening. But if I do, whats a good tyre for mainly road use that isnt going to die in a single track day?

And wheres good for a Whiteline ARB?

 

[Soot1e]

Keep what you have and mildly modify, paying most attention to the brakes and suspension. At least you know how the car has been looked after and what needs doing, you could end up with a heap of trouble buying an unknown car. You can have just as much fun on track in a normal road car.

 

[Skeeter]

Keeping the car and modding it a bit is gettin the most support here.

What do people suggest in terms of suspension mods?

 

[Soot1e]

Eibach Prolines. They dont lower the car much 10 -30mm. but are far more comfortable to ride on and stiff enough for a wet or dry track. Stiffer anti roll bar.

 

[Timmyevo6]

Hi all

I have convinced myself (it didnt take much) that once my GF finds a job and we get settled, which should be soon, I want to track day a RS Clio. I just need to decide which one.

and then she'll dump you and all you'll end up with a clio with no interior!

 

[ForceIndia]

Keeping the car and modding it a bit is gettin the most support here.

What do people suggest in terms of suspension mods?

In all honesty, it depends how serious you want to go. List of the suspension I've owned
-Prolines
-Sportlines
-Apex springs (on a car I purchased, I didn't buy them)
-AST coilovers
-H&R coilovers
-KW V2 coilovers
-Whiteline ARB

Springs are not adequate for a track car, imo standard suspension is better. 2 ways of approaching it

Money: KW V2's and the whiteline. Epic setup, incredible.
Skint: Whiteline ARB, and save for the V2's. Springs will look good, but acheive little on track.

 

[Skeeter]

and then she'll dump you and all you'll end up with a clio with no interior!

She wants to get her own helmet and come track daying with me

In all honesty, it depends how serious you want to go. List of the suspension I've owned
-Prolines
-Sportlines
-Apex springs (on a car I purchased, I didn't buy them)
-AST coilovers
-H&R coilovers
-KW V2 coilovers
-Whiteline ARB

Springs are not adequate for a track car, imo standard suspension is better. 2 ways of approaching it

Money: KW V2's and the whiteline. Epic setup, incredible.
Skint: Whiteline ARB, and save for the V2's. Springs will look good, but acheive little on track.

Cheers Brown Bear. The Whiteline ARB gets a lot of love on here.

 

[Wests Renault]

keep what you've got, i was in exactly the same boat 4 months ago when i sold my 182 for a ph1 which is now track spec, but wish i'd kept the 182, was just a better car

 

[Soot1e]

She wants to get her own helmet and come track daying with me


She could always use your "Helmet"

 

[Skeeter]

The moment I posted that I knew the type of comments i'd get back...

 

[Soot1e]

Sorry!

 

[chrispy.clio]

I should have sold my 182 and bought a Ph1 to turn into a track car but didnt.

I have a Ph2 track car and its very good on H&R coilovers with AST solid top mounts

Have a look in my project thread and it might give you some ideas of what you can buy to improve things on track.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...spy-s-ITB-d-amp-Caged-182-Track-Car&highlight

I have gone mad and spent a lot but from my experience you dont have to go mad, and a good set of coilovers, new steering wheel, seats, wheels is a good start.

Also having another of wheels means you can get the most out of tyre on track and run them down to the canvas (sort of thing) and then change your wheels to drive home.

 

[Skeeter]

Cheers Chrispy.

Trouble is, to free up the cash to change a number things like suspension and wheels and seats and steering wheel etc would mean selling the Ph2 for a Ph1. Keeping my Ph2 would mean cutting back on the mods. The decision between those 2 options is what spurred this thread in the first place.

decisions decisions.

 

[ForceIndia]

If the financial equation is that tight, keep yours and do it step by step. You MUST budget for the inevitable breakages and failures.

 

[Wests Renault]

Cheers Chrispy.

Trouble is, to free up the cash to change a number things like suspension and wheels and seats and steering wheel etc would mean selling the Ph2 for a Ph1. Keeping my Ph2 would mean cutting back on the mods. The decision between those 2 options is what spurred this thread in the first place.

decisions decisions.

this is the reason i sold my 182. i free'd up £2000 to spend on mods but a lot of that money went on making the new 172 ph1 sound in the first place (top mounts, brakes, abs sensor, ball joint etc)

 

[Will.]

I still haven't seen you about!

Keep the car and spend some money on it

 

[Skeeter]

I still haven't seen you about!

Keep the car and spend some money on it

Yeah, I keep looking out for the white wheeled monster (although your selling those wheels arent you?). I dont spend much time in Westbury though.

I think the potential for sinking money into an old 172 to make it road worthy is putting me off. There are things I need to do to my Ph2, but atleast I know its working.

 

[Craig.H]

leave the car as you have it mate, then track it as is.

once you have done a trackday you will no what needs money spent, like your tires might be shocking on track, but the standard suspension coped ok....so buy new tires.....next track day you might find you cant put up wit getting thrown about so much so get yourself buckets seats....and so on

there is no point building a car that you think is the right way to do it! get on track and get a feel for it then start from there. remember a rs clio is very capable standard!

oh.....and keep money aside for failures on track, prob the most important thing to consider!! i lost a wheel on my first trackday and have a £300 repair bill...oops!

 

[Skeeter]

Lost a wheel! Thats fairly extreme! lol.

Yeah, My car needs some new tyres anyway, so its that, maybe some new brake pads on the front, and then a trip to Castle Combe

 

[OFFROADNICK]

it sounds like to me that you was thinking about a ph1 cause it would be a new car to you if you know what i mean and we all love getting a new car

 

[Pearce]

sell your car and buy this http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?521138-Ph-1-172-Fast-road-track-ready-car..-188bhp-890kg-%A34-000-ono.
its alot cheaper than doing it all yourself

 

[Linus27]

Hi, I have done about 7 track days in my old Lotus Elise which I used as my daily drive also. From my experience, I would keep your current car and go and do a couple of novice track days to get a feel for it and see how you feel. For the record, I never needed to buy any new tyres for my Lotus after tracking it so I doubt you will need to buy any tyres as long as they are in good nick. If you like the whole trackday thing then start upgrading your current car. However, as somebody said, the standard 172 is a very capable track car. I really would do a couple of trackdays first with your curent car though rather than waste money by buying a new car and then not really enjoying doing track days.