Tuning or GTiR

[Martin]

Have started to think about getting a faster car, the main option being a Sunny GTiR. Cant decide if I want to tune the Williams - Cams and T/Bs or splash out on the tuneable GTiR. Trading in / selling my car and buying a GTiR will cost a fair bit plus increase on insurance but tuning the Williams is far from a good investment. Any thoughts?

 

[Dansta]

gtir, group 20 insuarance! and altho quick as fook, your bank balance will go down just a quik!

 

[MAXIBOY]

depends on the use if for thashing about buy a gtir nobodys going to care if you spank one of those. but they have sh*t brakes fragil transmissions and turbos so buying could just be the beginning

 

[BigBoreBri]

Tuning the williams wont do u any favours when u come to sell it...

There are other altrenatives to a GTI-R but its all down to what u like

 

[Martin]

Anyone got any alternatives then needs 4WD or RWD and not cost more than 6-7k? ( Dont want a scooby )

 

[BigBoreBri]

EVO!!

 

[bondy]

mazda 323 turbo look dated but 4x4 turbo

 

[BenR]

eeeeeew.......

Dunno, i would usually go for something like a hachiroku, ITR....erm, the early Celica Turbo 4x4........the one before that horrid round headlight thing....that was a fun car....dunno, as with any car youll end up spending loads of cash on it.

A GTi-R might be tunable, but its horrible and itll cost you far more in parts alone getting the thing to any decent spec. Its not that fast.

 

[Red16]

Sapphire Cosworth (2wd & 4wd)



i like the GTiR by the way, not great looking but i like it!

 

[t_sheen]

Me mates got a GTI-R they not to bad not that nice inside. They seem quite quick and handle nice! once my cup has run in im gona see how GTI-R really goes!

 

[RobFenn]

Drove a standard GTiR yesterday. Maybe good in their day..no more!

-Rob

 

[Tom_16v]

Quote: Originally posted by Red16 on 28 December 2003

Sapphire Cosworth (2wd & 4wd)

You the man! Perfect choice.

Me and my mate in work on the CCTV cameras saw a wicked 4wd one parked up. Absolutely mint, and all standard too.

 

[edde]

Citreon Xsara VTS

Alfa coupe (it wasnt built by Alfa employess so should be better build quality wise and they have a 2 liter turbo in some of them whcih has some HP)

Nissan 200 sx or 300

Saabs they do some good 2 liter high pressure tubo versions

Calibra 4*4 turbo should be good for 205hp stock and 250 with a chip and intercooler,

Corsa B with the above engine the C20 LET they should fly as they weigh less but dont have the 4 wheel drive delivery of the Calibra

EDD

 

[Clio16vPaul]

calibras are bloody awful cars, and they had delicate transmission...

I like the GtiR alot, but never been in one, mate of mine was on about buying one and test drove it and thought it wasnt that great after all. bloody ugly aswell.

i wouldnt touch the williams to much, maybe get yourself a valver and tune the hell out of that.... but leave the willie as standard.

 

[Bryan]

well after talking to sammy recently, im thinking bout going for a pulsar GTi-R

great cars if a little ugly

but the engine is what you pay for

 

[king.stromba]

Unless ur going to tune it the GTiR wont be a step forward from ur williams. I drove one and it was pants (was expecting a rocket ship but got a fast hot hatch).

 

[Red16]

Quote: Originally posted by Tom_16v on 28 December 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Red16 on 28 December 2003

Sapphire Cosworth (2wd & 4wd)

You the man! Perfect choice.

Me and my mate in work on the CCTV cameras saw a wicked 4wd one parked up. Absolutely mint, and all standard too.





looked standard but probs had 280-500bhp

 

[Frosty]

The newest GTi-Rs are from 1994 (M plate). These cars dont live quiet lives, and are nearly 10 years old, so expect things to go wrong. There are a few specialists around, and youll need to find one because its not a typical Nissan car so dealers will not be to clued up on them.

A friend has had 2 of them, and each one has cost him a fair bit of money to keep running. Things just keep going wrong as they were only produced in small numbers for homologation, and most have now been abused since they fall into the Max Power reader price range.

Realistically the Sunny/Pulsar is capable of 400bhp, but you are looking at around £15,000-£20,000 in addition to the cost of the car for that!

 

[MaLicE]

gtirs can be very quick i have a friend with 1 that has just under 400 bhp, and its rapid, but he has spent loads and just rapes him on money.

other cars, what about the 200sx, s13 with the popup lights, is a nice car and easy to drift, rwd and turbo 1.8 or the s14, rwd 2.0 turbo, both nice cars, both can be tuned alot, also other cars to think about are mazda rx7, get a good 1 and u will be laffing, single turbo convertion and then u got a propper fast car, but low mpg, lad on rtoc his brother has 1, single turbo convertion and loads of other work done, can get 9mpg if he tries hard. Toyota supras are nice also, either shape old or new, again lots of tuning possibilities, some people like em others dont... nissan sylvia... funno much about em but alot of people get them, mr2s etc then u got german cars bmws etc. also what about scoobs....

 

[williams-ant]

I had a GtiR a couple of years back, was featured in Banzai on a group thrash of Sunnys.

People who say standard ones arent fast are crazy, sometimes people fit aftermarket boost controllers such as the Apexi AVCR and then remove it when they sll but dont refit the original solenoid that controls the boost. This drastically reduced the performance and can make the car feel slow. Transmitions are terrible on these cars and is down to too much endfloat on the transmition shafts. You can buy Quaiffe boxes, these are miles stronger but still utilize the original casings so are still prone to fail Also the sunny uses the same gears as a bluebird so you can use the cogs from one of those. Handling is sh*t and the brakes would not be fir for a fiesta 1.1. I now lots of people who have mega GtiRs, one of which has one running 1.8bar boost 480bhp and has 100bhp nos. To get my sunny to 330bhhp this is what I had to do..

AP Paddle Clutch £800

Apexi SAFC £300

Apexi AVCR £350

HKS Filter £140

High output fuel pump £200

5Zeigen Ceramic lined Exhaust with high flow turbo Elbow £1000

HKS R33 front mount IC with alloy pipework £1800

All this and im sure a few other bits and bobs which I can t out my finger on set at 1.4bar boost saw me 331 bhp, 0-60 4.3secs and 1/4 in 12.7. had the car 1 year and only thing that went was reverse gear selector. In my book that is a feckin fast, cheap car! Even if it did handle like a blamonge!

Oh, and there were a few made on R reg beleive it or not, in red only!

I sold mine for an Integrale Evolution... seriously mint car superb brakes, superb handling and 4 wheel drifts on tap.. difficult to get over 260bhp safely, but you save your money on suspension and brakes..

RX7 3rd Gen is a nice car but when rotortips go you are in to big money.. If you get the Efini one you get 2 little seats in the back..

If you dont mind LHD the mitsubishi eclipse is pretty nice, or you could get a nice Mitsi EVO 3 or that money..

 

[king.stromba]

Cheers williams-ant. I have driven one and i did think it was slow, and im not crazy. Slow is a relative word. Yes it was a quick car, but not as quick as people make out. Id have no probs keeping with the standard one i drove in my Williams. People claim they are some kind of magical speed machine.In reality they are:

Expensive to run

Prone to break

Expensive to buy for what you get

Ugly

Not as fast as made out (maybe due to age or whatever)

The real crazy guy is the man who would swap a Williams for one of these. If you do want to change the Williams the 200SX has alot of advantages over the Pulsar. Please dont do it, the Williams is a beautiful rare car. Sometimes it is cool to drive slow you know!!



P.S.. if its any help, chicks dig the Williams. Turn up for a date in a pulsar and you wont do yourself any favours. Most normal girls know what a williams is. They like the shiney gold wheels. Think about it.

 

[Frosty]

williams-ant:

I remember the article well. I have it lying around somewhere.

Everyone else in thread:

One major down-side I forgot to mention - the clutch is around a 9-hour job! Thats a lot of money.

 

[williams-ant]

Glad you saw it!

I sold it to a guy called Chris Nelson on the saturday, and the group thrash was on the Monday. (This had been prior arranged before I sold it), He had it for 2 days and still got a 4.6 to 60!

King Stromba I did not mean for you to take any offence to my comment.. but the facts show that a std GtiR 0-60 is 5.4 secs.. Williams is about 7 and a half IIRC.. in relative terms 2 sec difference to 60 is huge! You must have been in a really bad example or one that was running sub std boost levels...

We will also have to agree to disagree over the chick thing as well, my gf at the time loved the GtiR and the attention it got even though she was not in to cars, my current gf wasnt really that arsed about the williams although she did say it was nice..

Dont mean to be argumentative as I have owned and loved both cars, I bought my Pulsar about 3 yrs ago and at the time they were pretty rare and a lot more expensive, I think I paid £7k for it at the time in Std form!

They are two totally different cars so it is hard to compare them, but if its a fast car that you want then there is no doubt that the sunny is quickest, but the handling, reliability and brakes of a Williams and its individuality are far superior to that of any jap car (at that price)( or have I said that to keep the williams fans happy ..)



I will leave this discussion now before I upset any more Williams fans..!!

 

[king.stromba]

Willimas-ant, ur Williams must have been sh*te if it did 0-60 in 7 and a half seconds. Riplash did a timed 0-60 in his Williams last night at 6.85. Completely standard. 7 and a half is fairy tale land.

Besides its not about speed. Its about overall package. And IMO the Williams is is the best overall package. It has everything. The sunny is just a quick car.

Edit: and as for image, the pulsar has the same image as the subaru. A male tarts car (read xr31). A williams has an image i would rather associate with. But like you say its down to personal opinion. But please bear in mind i am never wrong.

 

[williams-ant]

I was just going off book figures! I never did a time.. My my we a bit touchy about Williams clios!



As I said they are both good cars and personally I could not give a toss what car the guy gets out of either a clio or a sunny as I stand to gain nothing! Just offering a little help and a little unbiased information about both, after owning one of each for over a year, but who am I to comment?

And I would just like to add that although the Sunny was a good car I would not own another, as King Stromba says they have the same image as a Subaru, which personally I would not want anymore.. I would not rule out owning another Williams..

 

[Mondial172]

NO NO NO! Get an EVO 1, 2 or 3! GTI-Rs are good but it can be hard to find a good one.

Ive drive 2 and neither was a good match for the EVO 2. I do admit that both Pulsars were cheap examples but it give the wow! factor.

If you a little mad get an EVO RS instead of a GSR - Lightweight version but no goodies

 

[williams-ant]

Didnt cadburys have a contract to make the engines in the evo1?

Heard there was substantial improvement in Evo2

 

[king.stromba]

Haha, Williams-ant, just baiting you into another post after you said you wouldnt

 

[ak16v]

SUPARA 3.0 Twin Turbo

Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo

 

[EvoCarl]

have to back up what Adamf says.

Standard for standard a Evo2/3 laughes in the face of a gti-r

Tuned tho the GTR is very quick and i am in no way bad mouthing them, there great cars.

Mod wise early evos cheap also.

williams-ant GTi-r time of 12.7 is nice. but seems to of cost alot of money.FMIC takes a big chuck of money.

Early evos do 12.9s with just a 35 quid dawes device and properly setting up.

GTI-R specs:





Power/torque
170kW@6400rpm / 200lb/ft@4800rpm


How heavy
1190 kg

Suspension
Power assisted rack and pinion, 4-wheel independent with front McPherson struts. Rear parallel links with struts

Brakes
Heavy-duty front ventilated disc brakes and rear disc brakes
4-sensor, 2-channel electronic ABS

Wheels/tyres
aluminium 14 x 6JJ, 195/55R14 82V radials

Length/width/height/wheelbase (mm)
3975/1690/1410/2430
Front Track - 1440mm
Rear Track - 1415 mm

Performance (0-100/0-400m)
5.5s/13.9s Max speed - 223kph



Evo3 specs:



Engine
2.0-litre, in line four, dohc,16 valve with intercooled TD05 turbocharger, 13psi, 9.0:1

Power/Torque
mailto:270bhp@6250rpm/309Nm227lb-ft@3000rpm">199kW270bhp@6250rpm/309Nm227lb-ft@3000rpm 7000rpm redline

How heavy
1190kg

Suspension
Independent MacPherson struts with coil springs, stabiliser bar (front), Independent multi-link and coil with toe control and stabiliser bar (rear)

Length/Width/Hieght/Wheelbase


Wheels & Tyres
15x5.5-inch alloys/Bridgestone Potenza RE71 205/50

Brakes
276 x 24mm ventilated discs (front), 260 x 10mm solid discs (rear)

Performace 0-100kph/0-400m
5.1 sec/12.9 sec





I am soooooooo glad I didnt buy anything else now as the Evo is amazing....I havnt even mentioned the seats OMG the seats



Grip in the evo is amazing off the lights.I can basically launch as fast in the wet as I can in the dry

 

[EvoCarl]

mind u lets face it neither is gunna win any beauty competitions really..

This looks ok tho I think

to stay a bit on topic I would sell th ewilliams and get something else if u are looking for more performance

http://www.fullboost.com.au/cars/factorycars/images/turboevo3.jpg

 

[EvoCarl]

heh just thought I look round at evos for sale after reading this thread......heres a evo1 500+ bhp car for sale not sure on colour....and the wheels suck:

http://babylon.blakjak.net/~actiondan/bensevo13.jpg

http://babylon.blakjak.net/~actiondan/bensevo15.jpg











http://babylon.blakjak.net/~actiondan/bensevo4.jpg



hmm wheels suk!

oh and that external wastegate is massive!

 

[Martin]

Thanks for all the ideas, but I think Evos are too expensive or would have one. Only have around 6-7k to spend then there is insurance. Cossie would be nice but you have to pay the earth for a decent one. Decided to probably sell the Williams as I am better off spending money on faster car than pouring it into the Williams. Mate says he can get Scooby wagons for around 3-4k, dont like them too much but it is tempting. Well see.......

 

[TheJesus]

This may sound mad, but have you thought about an older M5 or 540i BMW, there fast, comfy, handle well and are loaded with extras. Plus I have been informed that you can fit the M5 running gear to the V8 engines and tune the arse outta them.

My friend also had the Carlos Sainz GT4 and it is reliable and fast in its standard form, not sure about tuning, but IMO its fast and dangerous enough.

 

[EvoCarl]

Quote: Originally posted by MartinS on 29 December 2003

Thanks for all the ideas, but I think Evos are too expensive or would have one. Only have around 6-7k to spend then there is insurance. Cossie would be nice but you have to pay the earth for a decent one. Decided to probably sell the Williams as I am better off spending money on faster car than pouring it into the Williams. Mate says he can get Scooby wagons for around 3-4k, dont like them too much but it is tempting. Well see.......

Evo 1-3 seem to be going from 4k to 6k at the moment

my last quote for insurance was £650 fully comp, no tracker needed

miss my car so much after I f**ked the wheel/shock hitting a kerb.back on the road soon

Tunning is endless.

12 1/4 is a breeze and getting into 11s is not to much expense

did I mention the gorgeous seats??

 

[Mondial172]

Carl is right. Ive seen an Evo 1 for £3,995 (ok is was a stripped out racer). A good Evo2 will cost no more than £5,000 and £6,000 for a good 3. Even now the 4s are heading below the £10,000 mark.

For me the EVO 2 was one of the best cars Ive driven. Not just because after my VTR it was a blast no! Its because of the sheer grip and driver interaction you get!

I have driven two Pulsars (same friend as frosty) a neither really impressed me like the Lancer. They were fast and handling was good but there wasnht the WOW! factor.

 

[EvoCarl]

like adam says grip is amazing.

I can do a full launch off the line in the rain with little or no wheel spin

wasted so many cars like that.

Dont advise it tho as doesnt do clutch to many favours!

oh and the first time u do your rally style donut is amazing

They come with a dumpvalve as well for you dump valve freaks, although is a recercultaing(sp?) one so not that loud try this link for tunning options

http://www.gizzmoelectronics.co.nz/products_evopowerpack.htmlhttp://www.gizzmoelectronics.co.nz/products_evopowerpack.html

the above link do international stuff and works out at £1300 quid then obviously importing/export plus getting stuff put on and set up.

Very cheap power tho. there lucky over there. drive in drive out 400bhp+ for 1300 quid

if u dont want a external wastegate they told me they can supply a turbo to fit right on the normal manifold that can flow enough for 700bhp for cheaper.

The gizzmo chip is only 120 quid fitted.

mix that with:

walbro fuel pump. £120

sard pressure regualtor £160

Dawes device: £48

bloody thing will fly after these few cheap bits.

read following link for tonnes of ideas...tis a good read

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26444&highlight=evo3http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26444&highlight=evo3

Next year I am going for mods for a 12sec flat 1/4 car. should be enough for the roads

 

[Iain C]

I think if u r only spending 6-7k on a big power car expect 2 shell out big cash on keeping it running and do you really wanna own a money pit?
Nissan 200 or 300 are cool tho....wot about an R32 Skyline? Can get em for 4k now. 96 Celica GT4? Integra type r?
all wicked cars.
Im having the same problem as u. I wanna 3rd gen RX7 but would have 2 buy a second car as well 4 daily use. I dont want all my pay pack 2 go on my car!

 

[EvoCarl]

My Evo doesnt cost anymore to run than my S1 RS-Turbo I had.

oil filter £5

oil £30

Front pads £40-130 depending on brand

read Pads as above.

wheel bearings £35(kit)

clutch is a bit pricy tho.

clutch £300+

example:

Cusco METAL CLUTCH PLATE and UP-GRADED CLUTCH COVER £480
Jun lighwieght flywheel £290 (4.5kg)
a f**ked clutch can kill the flywheel so best to change clutch before its to late once you notice its dying

Obviously petrol cosumption is past a joke.....as in like 16mpg hehe

dont know of anyone ever killing a early Evo gearbox.

spark plugs £52 a set for densos.You can buy cheap ones for like 10 quid a set.

HT leads £60 deliverd. I bought magnecor ones

fuel filter £20

zorst £500 for apexi cat back. bit more for turbo back

if u got an evo tho u would join the MLR and get offers on group buys

I dont think any of the above is really that bad for a top performance car.

hell you can get a full set of forged pistons JE for like £600

or shove in cheaper Evo6 pistons as there strong and then u can add more boost.

Dotn wanna go above 1.1/1.2 bar on evo3 pistons.

 

[James20VT]

get an import Mazda RX-7 twin turbo

their RWD no?