Unsecured Wifi ? would you ?

[KDF]

I'm sitting in my car in Edinburgh City centre and am waiting for my college class to begin..

Now I've fired up my laptop as I was gonna use to N95 to do some surfing while im waiting.. trouble is it didnt work but what did happen is some knobber has left is wifi completly unsecured.. hence i'm speaking to you now.

Now i'm not going to hog his bandwidth or do anything illegal. Is it morally wrong ? or are you of the opinion if its unsecured its fair game ?

 

[DrR]

I do it all the time. It's not hard to secure it so it's your own fault IMO.

 

[Lou]

I do it when I go to my mates all the time. Her next door neighbours is unsecure. Apparently the guy works in IT but can't be that good if he leaves his connection open!!

 

[@Spoonie]

Personally I don't go near them. If they can't secure their network then I dread to think the s**t they have floating around on it...

 

[DrR]

Personally I don't go near them. If they can't secure their network then I dread to think the s**t they have floating around on it...

As long as you have a firewall how is it any different to connecting using a modem? As long as your not stupid and use it to go on banking or something.

 

[Adams_16v]

once scanned a 20 mile round trip on my laptop (i was going that route anyways and had sat nav on laptop) and i picked up over 500 WiFi networks and around 150 of them were unsecure

 

[Daz]

On the basis that it's illegal..

Would you go into someones house and watch their TV if they left the door open?

 

[DrR]

On the basis that it's illegal..

Would you go into someones house and watch their TV if they left the door open?

That wouldn't be illegal!

 

[Mike_182]

On the basis that it's illegal..

Would you go into someones house and watch their TV if they left the door open?

That wouldn't be illegal!

Trespassing

 

[DrR]

No law against trasspassing, all the owner can do is use reasonable force to remove you from their proerty.

 

[Andy]

I steal connections all the time.

If they're stupid enough to leave their connection open they deserve it. Although I never access secure sites across an open network; that would be silly.

 

[UncleGrumpy]

Is it morally wrong? well if someone is stupid enough to leave a wifi connection open then they deserve all they get, look at it this way, would you go into a pub, put your wallet on the bar, go for a piss and still expect all the money to be there when you got back? only a headcase would think that likely.

It might be illegal to do, everyone knows this, just like it would be to take the money from the wallet, but you cant invite something then whine like a b**ch when it happens.

Rape the connection for all its worth

 

[ChrisR]

They are probably leaving them open on purpose in the hope that people will connect and then eavesdropping on all your traffic...

I knew a guy who did this, can't remember the technicalities but basically all the traffic from the wifi connection ran through a system that pulled out all the info, so he gleaned usernames, passwords etc out of thin air from clever dicks who thought they were getting free wifi from an idiot

 

[sn00p]

Although I never access secure sites across an open network; that would be silly.

If the "secure" site uses TLS (which it almost certainly will be) and the certificate is valid (and authenticated by yourself) then there is no issue, it's secure, they cannot eavesdrop.

I knew a guy who did this, can't remember the technicalities but basically all the traffic from the wifi connection ran through a system that pulled out all the info, so he gleaned usernames, passwords etc out of thin air from clever dicks who thought they were getting free wifi from an idiot

I've often thought about this, how many people would use an open connection for checking/sending email on a non TLS connection. If I were to access an open router then I'd make sure that I didn't have an email client running and that I didn't access anything which required usernames/passwords without TLS.

There are many sniffers (ethereal is one good free one) that sniffs traffic, it has protocol decoders so it's able to piece together both sides of a conversation and decode it. It's trivial.

 

[David]

if they're stupid enough to leave it unsecure then do it.

 

[MrMark]

I think i read somewhere that a few people have been caught "stealing" somebody elses internet connection. Not quite sure what happened to them though.


There are 5 wireless routers that i can pick up right now, and believe it or not, only 2 are secure. One is mine.

 

[MrMark]

They are probably leaving them open on purpose in the hope that people will connect and then eavesdropping on all your traffic...

I knew a guy who did this, can't remember the technicalities but basically all the traffic from the wifi connection ran through a system that pulled out all the info, so he gleaned usernames, passwords etc out of thin air from clever dicks who thought they were getting free wifi from an idiot

lol. Thats Ownage right there!

 

[KDF]

from clever dicks who thought they were getting free wifi from an idiot

Who's the fool when someone decides to download some kiddie p**n.... guess who's door the police will come a knocking on ?

 

[Beef-Mc]

Lol.

 

[RichRSi]

If I switch my router on then open my laptop too quickly it just logs onto the most available network and not mine.
I wondered why the ariel strength was low and when I checked the airport settings noticed I had spent the evening logged onto a neighbors unsecured network so to rejoin mine had to type in the passwords etc.

 

[French Car Show]

you may get busted if caught:-



Two arrested over wifi theft

By Natalie Paris and agencies

Police have cautioned a man and a woman for using wireless broadband connections without permission, in two of the country's first cases of "wifi theft".

The man was arrested in Redditch, Worcestershire, on Saturday after residents spotted him using a laptop while parked in his car outside a house.

A similar incident occured in Redditch earlier this month when a 29-year-old woman was arrested, although police do not believe there is a link between the two.
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Both have been cautioned for dishonestly obtaining electronic communications services with intent to avoid payment.

Pc Tony Humphreys, from West Mercia Police, said: "We want people to be aware that this is possible and to be vigilant themselves regarding their own broadband connections.

"Wireless networks don't stop at the walls of your home - and so without the necessary protection, your neighbours or people in the road outside may be able to connect to your network.

"This might slow down your internet service, or more importantly, your internet connection could be used for unlawful purposes."

Most wireless networks are unsecured when first set up, but can be configured to stop unauthorised users accessing them.

Pc Humphreys added: "We do not want to alarm wireless broadband users - we want them to follow the advice on wireless broadband security issued to them by their broadband providers."

 

[MarkCup]

Interesting topic...

 

[brisa4984]

ive got a wpa-psk thing. is it possible for someone to hack and get the password anyway?

 

[Adams_16v]

it is but its unlikely its going to happen unless someone really wants to get into your connection!

 

[UncleGrumpy]

from clever dicks who thought they were getting free wifi from an idiot

Who's the fool when someone decides to download some kiddie p**n.... guess who's door the police will come a knocking on ?

And how seriously do you think the police would take it if you told them 'it must have been someone using my connection guv'

For quite a few reasons I never use wireless.

 

[Andy.1.2-16v]

Personally I don't go near them. If they can't secure their network then I dread to think the s**t they have floating around on it...

+1

After all it isn't that hard to secure a WiFi network, if they can't do that then I reckon they have no firewalls, virus software etc....

 

[KDF]

Why would you care though ? as long as your system is secure it doesnt matter about theirs ? :S

 

[cli0 172]

Orlando ... FTW

 

[Black-Clio-1.4]

ive got a wpa-psk thing. is it possible for someone to hack and get the password anyway?

Easy to hack, but keeps out the noobs.

What you need is MAC filtering on! This only allows your pc and devices to connect to your router.

 

[rctempire]

Most people see it as an opportunity to get free internet.
Ive done it, but never connected to anything that requires a username or password. Most Wireless "Security" can be monitored and if its open, it is relatively easy to gain passwords/view sessions etc. So no thanks for that.

MAC filtering and then dont put a WPA/WEP on it, and it makes interesting watching to see who tries to connect. People just retry and retry but get denied when its MAC filtered. Far safer (if you know the macs).

 

[KDF]

Orlando ... FTW

Knowsit !

 

[Adam]

IMO if you havnt secured your own wireless network then you deserve to have other people use it as well.

 

[roofis303]

i used a free wifi connection when i moved house someone close to me . there was no password or nothing i could just connect . thats been over a year now . and there is not a law stating u cant use it and its not against the law . only in the u.s.a. it is law . it wont be long before the internet in the uk is capped , like it is in hong kong and other countrys . hear in the uk the internet is wide open no ristrictions to where u can go not like other countrys . its just a matter of time before we r capped also

 

[Mark One]

sponge it for the win

 

[De Gal]

Would you go into someones house and watch their TV if they left the door open?

Isn't this more like looking in through someones front window and watching their tv - if they don't want you to all they need is curtains or a blind???

Also when it's neighbours can you not then argue they are invading your privacy with their wireless network - claim its given you migraines and is a form of anti social behaviour - if you can have noise pollution why not electronic as well???

 

[ChrisR]

ive got a wpa-psk thing. is it possible for someone to hack and get the password anyway?

Easy to hack, but keeps out the noobs.

What you need is MAC filtering on! This only allows your pc and devices to connect to your router.

Eh, wrong on both accounts I think...

As long as you use a decent pass phrase WPA-PSK will hold up very well.

MAC filtering however is easy enough to get round once you've sniffed for a mac that's connected to the device. Although wireless isn't my thing so don't know the ins and outs.

KDF you're right about the kiddie p**n thing, but if you're sniffing the traffic etc least you've maybe got something you can give to the authorities as you'd have logs and info on the connection whereas if you'd just left it open and someone did it there'd be nothing.

 

[sn00p]

Easy to hack, but keeps out the noobs.

What you need is MAC filtering on! This only allows your pc and devices to connect to your router.

Eh, wrong on both accounts I think...

As long as you use a decent pass phrase WPA-PSK will hold up very well.

MAC filtering however is easy enough to get round once you've sniffed for a mac that's connected to the device. Although wireless isn't my thing so don't know the ins and outs.

KDF you're right about the kiddie p**n thing, but if you're sniffing the traffic etc least you've maybe got something you can give to the authorities as you'd have logs and info on the connection whereas if you'd just left it open and someone did it there'd be nothing.

lol. You've saved me the hassle of pointing out how wrong the information in that post is!

 

[KDF]

IIRC the mac address is attached to TCP/IP packets.. therefor capture a packet and you would have the mac address you need to spoof..

Its been a while since I looked at the TCP/IP standards though heh.

 

[sn00p]

IIRC the mac address is attached to TCP/IP packets.. therefor capture a packet and you would have the mac address you need to spoof..

Its been a while since I looked at the TCP/IP standards though heh.

It's part of the ethernet frame, IP runs over ethernet (as well as more exotic physical layers).

 

[Munson]

Yes I would if I was desperate for a connection to check email on my phone or something, but generally I always make sure I have a legit connection where ever I travel. Blatantly ripping off someone elses connection because they 'deserve' it, means you're just a blood sucking pikey. IMO