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Fiat Coupe 16V Turbo
Im also interested in the exact difference with possible cams. Will the car idle OK, will it turn into a super high-rev engine? Or will it provide the same power on lower RPM's, and add more when over 4.000?
withoutabix
ClioSport Club Member
428's fitted at freds then down to TDF for a map = win
The Chubby Pirate
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
Waste of money IMO.
N/A engines should be appreciated as standard!
N/A engines should be appreciated as standard!
Chris205
ClioSport Club Member
Many Things
That's pretty decent tom. Is that through yourselves? How would they work with the JMS inlet manifold as that is also something I would like to do after cams
What cams are the best to run is it 428's or nothing???
Minefield, everyones opinion differs. 428s are good, however there is a batch of bad profiles floating around that present horrific torque curves. Some of the curves I've seen at RStuning are superb, others have very bad unavoidable dips right in the mid range. Without taking the time to measure them it's impossible to know.
I like cams for the OEM aspect, 428s certainly idle well and give you torque where you need it - however you loose a certain amount of drama / interest an external upgrade like ITBs / RS2 provides (such as the noise etc) - Hard to explain but it almost seems like you've got more for the cash.
I've got a customer with a cup & 428s going up to Pauls next month - I'm looking forward to seeing what it will do as we have not had the time to do any cam/inlet development ourselves.
I like cams for the OEM aspect, 428s certainly idle well and give you torque where you need it - however you loose a certain amount of drama / interest an external upgrade like ITBs / RS2 provides (such as the noise etc) - Hard to explain but it almost seems like you've got more for the cash.
I've got a customer with a cup & 428s going up to Pauls next month - I'm looking forward to seeing what it will do as we have not had the time to do any cam/inlet development ourselves.
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R26
Dont bother. For the price there's much better things you can do to the car. Spending money on a 182 engine = waste. And this is coming from someone who nearly spent a fortune making that mistake!
Yes the 172, however it has the C&B cams & the Xtra RS2; recent testing has been between 195 & 203 IIRC on different rollers.
The problem with that car is it has not followed a good development program so the results are not relevant to an extent (at least for final figures).
The 182 & our local 172 are the only two cars that we control ourselves that have followed a development plan, hence they are the results used in published final figures blah blah blah.
In the short of it, the cup in a couple of week is of great interest, and yes I hope it can manage 200, especially on Pauls Rollers
The problem with that car is it has not followed a good development program so the results are not relevant to an extent (at least for final figures).
The 182 & our local 172 are the only two cars that we control ourselves that have followed a development plan, hence they are the results used in published final figures blah blah blah.
In the short of it, the cup in a couple of week is of great interest, and yes I hope it can manage 200, especially on Pauls Rollers
I wouldnt bother mate, agree with shadowness
TrackCar & F30 330d
Cams seems like such a lot of money for little gain, if you have £1000-£1600 burning a hole in your pocket then put it towards ITB's if you want to do enigne work.
R26
I was going down the supercharger route, failing that then throttle bodies. But I held off, and I am SOOOOO glad I did. Also, having done 'normal' track days (not RS ones), you simply don't need the extra power.
Spend the money on brakes/suspension. Or better yet, do some track days and enjoy the car for what it was meant to do. The only thing I would ever do to a 1*2 engine is a RSTuner remap and that's it. Anything else, and you're spunking s**t loads of money away for not much gain, because from experience again, 1*2s with bodies etc aren't much quicker than standard. You will certainly be gutted when you see that standard 1*2 still in your rear view mirror having spend £1k+ or whatever.
Just my 2c
Spend the money on brakes/suspension. Or better yet, do some track days and enjoy the car for what it was meant to do. The only thing I would ever do to a 1*2 engine is a RSTuner remap and that's it. Anything else, and you're spunking s**t loads of money away for not much gain, because from experience again, 1*2s with bodies etc aren't much quicker than standard. You will certainly be gutted when you see that standard 1*2 still in your rear view mirror having spend £1k+ or whatever.
Just my 2c
Dont bother with 428's their not worth the money. Im just back from a quarter miles and could only get a best of 14.6 @ 97. Got a 14.4 @ 99 with 300 quid Piper regrinds. The Pipers made me grim from ear to ear when i booted it, these 428's are flat compared
Forgot to add, i had at least a extra 30kg's of ice and heavy Speedlines with the Pipers too so they would have been even better !
Forgot to add, i had at least a extra 30kg's of ice and heavy Speedlines with the Pipers too so they would have been even better !
^you sure you haven't got some of the ones that were dodgy?
14.0 for me on a std engine
Funny you should say that, the first 428's were indeed the ''bad ones'' with the strange low down curve but these are fresh ''good'' replacements from cat cams. Made 165lb/ft of torque at Pauls only a few weeks ago (other mods too)
Tom, you reckoned your mani was going to make 200, and that wasn't true either, Does that make you a joker as well?
Funny how people talk of a product they have not probably even seen, less so test drove.
P.S. I have these cams (Engine Dynamics), they don't give 210 hp for sure, but they do give more grunt from 3k onwards with at least same torque levels from 2k. tick over is erratic and before VVT engages the car feels like a 1.6. That is the trade off.
Funny how people talk of a product they have not probably even seen, less so test drove.
P.S. I have these cams (Engine Dynamics), they don't give 210 hp for sure, but they do give more grunt from 3k onwards with at least same torque levels from 2k. tick over is erratic and before VVT engages the car feels like a 1.6. That is the trade off.
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Chris205
ClioSport Club Member
Many Things
VVT starts to work around 1500 RPM IIRC, what you're talking about is the advances renault put in at 5k RPM along with more fuel etc, I take it you havent had the car live mapped?
I have seen the Rs2 Inlet manifold and spoke to Tom in great detail about it at FCS'10, hence why I'm absolutely sold with it and confident it would fulfill my needs from a roadcar. I love to have a revy n/a,
would love boost but I dont want to do it on the cheap, if you're going to go boosted you should do it right first time with forged bottom end, fuel pump, standalone management (stock may be possible to map???) but then I would assume after buying suitable turbo, manifold and having custom downpipe fabricated, hard pipe kit etc you're going to be looking at a steady £5-7k
Steve- I think you need to take me out in the Turbo trophy when its fixed and somehow persuade me there should be a second turbo trophy in the NE
I have seen the Rs2 Inlet manifold and spoke to Tom in great detail about it at FCS'10, hence why I'm absolutely sold with it and confident it would fulfill my needs from a roadcar. I love to have a revy n/a,
would love boost but I dont want to do it on the cheap, if you're going to go boosted you should do it right first time with forged bottom end, fuel pump, standalone management (stock may be possible to map???) but then I would assume after buying suitable turbo, manifold and having custom downpipe fabricated, hard pipe kit etc you're going to be looking at a steady £5-7k
Steve- I think you need to take me out in the Turbo trophy when its fixed and somehow persuade me there should be a second turbo trophy in the NE
VVT starts to work around 1500 RPM IIRC, what you're talking about is the advances renault put in at 5k RPM along with more fuel etc, I take it you havent had the car live mapped?
I have seen the Rs2 Inlet manifold and spoke to Tom in great detail about it at FCS'10, hence why I'm absolutely sold with it and confident it would fulfill my needs from a roadcar. I love to have a revy n/a,
would love boost but I dont want to do it on the cheap, if you're going to go boosted you should do it right first time with forged bottom end, fuel pump, standalone management (stock may be possible to map???) but then I would assume after buying suitable turbo, manifold and having custom downpipe fabricated, hard pipe kit etc you're going to be looking at a steady £5-7k
Steve- I think you need to take me out in the Turbo trophy when its fixed and somehow persuade me there should be a second turbo trophy in the NE
didnt think stock ecu could be properly live mapped?
ITB'd MK1
it can't be done. all you can do is data log and make changes, upload and see what effect the changes have made. Changes under load-holding cannot be made, the ecu just doesn't work in that way
ITB'd MK1
well maybe if you're renault or seimens
^^ Still, it is very bold to say someone is a joker or trying to playing full to others. as that could be applied to the development of your product, which even with cams and xtra has struggled to be consistent at 200.
And no one who hasn't experienced the actual product can make judgements of it. I am not going over to anyone (not even you, sorry to make an example of your impressive mani), just making the point of talk over those things we know for sure.
I can tell as I am the owner of such cams, NO, THEY DONT GIVE 206HP's, but.... YES; THEY MAKE THE CAR FASTER.
And no one who hasn't experienced the actual product can make judgements of it. I am not going over to anyone (not even you, sorry to make an example of your impressive mani), just making the point of talk over those things we know for sure.
I can tell as I am the owner of such cams, NO, THEY DONT GIVE 206HP's, but.... YES; THEY MAKE THE CAR FASTER.
I'd only get cams if the car needed the cambelt changing anyway.
Have to agree with you Maupineda there awesome cams for the price and there not regrinds there new billet cams for half the price fitted of everyone else! dont see why the 200hp mark is completely unbelievable either as i think ED said there test car made 206hp with cams exhaust modifications (182 manifold + exhaust) and induction kit etc. As didnt Henk map a car with C&B cams and a 182 manifold that was producing pretty much the same power as a stock 197 or 200? I think i remember reading a thread about it somewhere?
I cant complain about the idle though mines pretty sweet, ph1 ftw!
Some say cams are worthless as they give so little gains. That can be true, but at least in my case and others I know off they have paid back.
Look this video http://www.youtube.com/user/luisvillarruel#p/u/2/TefjmYqwgUA my car is the silver on the right, it is 172 with cams, 182 CAT and Remus box, the blue has a very different approach but is quite modded as well. the car the video is taken from is a 172 with 2.5 exhaust, decat and remap. And see for yourself how the two modded clios just pull away very, very noticeable. So, modding the engine isn't as useless as we may think. Expensive... sure.
More like, if you are not going to be serious then leave it alone, as remap, exhaust (mani-back), filters, etc do close to nothing other than placebo and the feeling of the car's delivery, and won't compete with proper metal like cams, heads, cranks, 4-2-1 mani. At least that is my experience.
Look this video http://www.youtube.com/user/luisvillarruel#p/u/2/TefjmYqwgUA my car is the silver on the right, it is 172 with cams, 182 CAT and Remus box, the blue has a very different approach but is quite modded as well. the car the video is taken from is a 172 with 2.5 exhaust, decat and remap. And see for yourself how the two modded clios just pull away very, very noticeable. So, modding the engine isn't as useless as we may think. Expensive... sure.
More like, if you are not going to be serious then leave it alone, as remap, exhaust (mani-back), filters, etc do close to nothing other than placebo and the feeling of the car's delivery, and won't compete with proper metal like cams, heads, cranks, 4-2-1 mani. At least that is my experience.
Evo 5 RS
I've seen a few making that. Mine would of made that or more with the map it has now if it hadn't ingested filth, easily.
