'Vickyx' "billabong"

[Clio172T]

Down at lakeside last night. Was in the turbo 172!!

 

[Vicky.]

Was only down there for half an hour and was on my way to Tesco when the police pulled me over and I got a £30 fine for my car being apparently 22dB louder than a Ferrari. Pfft.

 

[Wick]

22dB louder than a Ferrari. Pfft.

FLOL! What were they on! And WTF were they a) measuring with and b) comparing to?

Mental.

 

[DanEdser]

FLOL! What were they on! And WTF were they a) measuring with and b) comparing to?

Mental.

enzo?

 

[Vicky.]

Lol. I know I was just like hmm okay. They told me to get out of the car, they set up a decibel meter about a foot from the exhaust then revved the car to 4-4.5k.

Apparently the legal limit is 82db and a Ferrari is 80db. I ran 102db on the first go but out of 3 the lowest was 97.6. If I get pulled for it again I'll get a £1000 fine and could face court.

Yes my clio is loud but louder than a super car at the same % of the rev range? Don't think so somehow.

 

[Jekyll]

Shoulda popped and banged it!

 

[Expired]

Wow, I'm sure there are worse things out their than a noisy exhaust, really boils my kettle that.

 

[Wick]

There's a noise limit? WTF? I had no idea there was an actual legally defined limit.

I assume older cars pre-cat laws are exempt?

 

[Jekyll]

Makes you laugh how they say a Ferrari is 80db. Are all ferraris the same then?! FFS

So is this a standard procedure or was it just a fussy petty cop?

 

[Vicky.]

Lol it was burbling and popping on idle as they chatted to me. Yep apparently so, I had no idea either. I tried to question Subaru's etc but they weren't having any of it.

I was on my way to Tesco on a 30mph road and they pulled me in an unmarked car and said they could clearly hear as I went past them that it was over the legal limit. They were parked up pulling cars that sounded anything louder than a Prius it would seem.

 

[-J-]

Post taken from PH, reasonably interesting...

My email convo with VOSA a while back. A nice human touch applied too.

Dear sirs,

I am writing to obtain details about the legal noise limits of an imported
car. Can you please provide the limits that the car has to be within?

I have also read the following regarding the new Vauxhall Corsa :

Thanks to a special dispensation first used by Ferrari, if a car’s
power-per-litre meets a certain standard then at a particular part of the
rev-range it can legally exceed the normal drive-by noise level
restrictions.

Can you please let me know what these limitations/criteria are, and also
what this allows?

Your enquiry has been passed to me from our enquiry unit due to its
technical nature. I am afraid your question is not as straight forward as
it may seem, but I shall try and answer it as comprehensively as possible.

A car currently imported in to this country would have to meet EEC
Directive 70/157/EEC as amended by 84/424/EEC annex 1, para. 5 if its date
of manufacture was before 01/01/1997. After that date it would have to meet
Directive 92/97/EEC, annex 1, para. 5. These limits are applied by the
manufacturer depending upon the vehicle type and as such vary from car to
car.

With regard to your second point, I believe that this is simply a` tongue
in cheek` advertising promotion. The basic facts are true, but what this
actually means, is that during the drive by noise test, carried out by a
Test House on behalf of the manufacturer of the vehicle, a very modest
increase is allowed in the overall output from the exhaust during a very
restricted section of the noise test. The vehicle still has to meet all the
other requirements of the noise Directive at all levels.

Finally, it is worth pointing out that if a standard exhaust system is
modified or replaced with an unsuitable item, the vehicle may well be in
breach of the Construction & Use Regulations (reproduced below) and the
MoT Regulations which may place the driver of the vehicle liable to
prosecution.

Section 54 (2)
"Every exhaust system and silencer shall be maintained in good and
efficient working order and shall not after the date of manufacturer be
altered so as to increase the noise made by the escape of exhaust gases."

Section 97
" No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any
excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable
care on the part of the driver."

I do hope this information is useful, but should you have any further
questions please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Many thanks for your prompt reply.

Could you please let me know where I can pick up details regarding these
directives?

The reason I ask is I am an administrator of a car club, and several
members have imported cars that came over with non standard exhausts. These
cars are both pre and post 1997, and some have an EU equivalent (matching
engine/chassis code for the MOT) and some do not.

Unless you have several months to spare and a great deal of patience, I
would suggest that reading the directives will not help you find the
information you are ultimately seeking. May I suggest that you outline the
exact information you are seeking ( I am very broad minded, honestly ! )
and I may be able to assist you further.

I did eventually find the directives, and I came up with the basics after
an hour of head scratching, but they seem VERY minimal. I would like to
know the dB limits for exhausts.

I have had members pulled over for exhausts that are "too loud", and then
the police are unable to provide details on "how quiet it must be" or
actually have calibrated measuring equipment.

This has intimidated several of the female members who are less knowlegable
about the cars they are driving, or the laws regarding them. So I would
like to personally test the cars and show them the guidelines and explain
if they are (or are not) legal. If they are not, we can then organise
modifications to get the cars legal (they all currently pass MOT, but that
is a 'personal' opinion of the tester).

The directives give - .5m, 45 degrees, 75% throttle (measured with an
outside tacho) and 72dB. I would be supprised if a modern TVR would pass
this at idle.

What limits should be be aiming for?

Thank you for the reply and your honesty in it. I had pretty much guessed
the theme of your enquiry, as I am currently answering lots of similar
questions. This is a very subjective matter at the moment, but I do know
that there is a test case being put before the courts shortly. This will
establish whether there is a legal precedent for further prosecutions for
vehicles with `noisy` exhausts.
As I previously stated, the actual noise limits are vehicle specific and as
such there is no limit for you to aim for. The only true way of
establishing if a vehicle meets the directive is to submit it to an
authorised testing facility, such as Millbrook, and run the vehicle through
the directive test. This would involve both a drive by and static run, the
cost of which is approximately £800. This is however, not a cost effective
option. It is also worth pointing out that most vehicles with sports type
exhausts fail this test during the drive by cycle.
Unfortunately, the bottom line is that the general public are demanding
action against the "boy racer " fraternity who tear around making a
nuisance of themselves. Because of this, any vehicle with a `loud` exhaust
is currently attracting the attention of the Police and Enforcement
Agencies. The statutory powers will always have the option of a prosecution
under the Construction & Use Regulations which is a subjective assessment.
As you have discovered, the actual limits in the Directive are very low,
indeed, some vehicles have the potential to fail when fitted with a
standard exhaust, which means there is very little defence in the court
room. Also, under the MoT scheme it states that :
a silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted
from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a
similar vehicle with a silencer in average condition, is a reason for the
vehicle to fail the MoT test.
It is worth pointing out that MoT garages are being advised to fail
vehicles with `loud` exhausts rather than give them the `benefit of the
doubt` as previously directed. Indeed, garages that pass vehicles which are
subsequently stopped by the Police, may well be investigated by VOSA .
My honest advice to you and your members is that if the exhaust sounds
loud, the chances are that it is, and as such will cause the driver
problems. There are plenty of exhaust systems available that are approved,
which will still give the vehicle a distinctive exhaust note without
attracting attention from the Authorities.
I appreciate that this is not the answer you would like, but
unfortunately, the mindless minority have spoilt it for the vast majority
and as such enforcement action will currently be taken against anyone who
appears to be flouting the law with regard to noisy exhausts. To protect
your members from any chance of a future prosecution or MoT failure, it may
well be prudent to think about replacing any exhaust that is unnecessarily
loud, before they attract the attention of the authorities.

Many thanks for the details.

None of my members have been prosecuted, yet. But some have felt
intimidated by police (one such incident they aggressively asked her why
she bought the car, as if it was any of their business).

With regards to a "standard car" levels, this is hard as a lot of us have
not come across a standard car of the same type.

I have calibrated measuring equipment and will be testing any cars that we
think could be an issue and re-building the exhausts ourselves, getting
them down to below race track set limits (96-98 dB @ 75% throttle).

It is a pain that there are easy to understand limits that we can work to,
it would be nice to know if we are breaking the law, how we can change
things to be road legal. Most other things are in black and white, but this
is a definate grey area.

As you say, it's a shame that the minority that do change their cars just
for volume, have to spoil it for the enthusiasts.

Thanks again for your time.

I am sorry I could not provide any exact figures, but as I explained, none
are available at this time. I would however urge you to think carefully
about the limit you are proposing to use, as speaking to our own
Enforcement Officers, they would still issue a Prohibition to a vehicle
emitting that level of noise, it is after all the limit applied to a race
track, not a road.
If I can help with anything else please do not hesitate to get in touch.

I was lead to believe that race tracks applied a lower limit to noise, due
to the constant noise that would be produced? I have seen many road cars be
turned away at organised track days for excessive noise.

The limit of 72dB that I had mentioned earlier would be broken by both my
cars with standard exhausts at idle. Donnington have a 98dB limit for all
their trackdays, so I'll aim to get it well under this.

I'm sure we are a LOT quieter than a TVR or a Harley Davidson though.

Race tracks apply the current Health and Safety limit, not the road limit,
which as I have said before is determined by a drive- by and static test.
Road cars turned away from track days invariably have modified exhausts
fitted not standard ones, which of course are louder. As a case in point,
after market `sports`motorcycle exhausts are very often stamped for track
use only, or not for road use as an indication of the extra noise they
produce.
I agree that some TVR`s and Harley Davidson's are much louder, but have you
heard the new BMW M3 at full throttle ? That is a real barking engine !!

I understand what you mean about the track volume now. The M3 engine is
loverly, can only imagine what the upcomming V8 will sound
like.

I currently have an S2000 and the howl at 9,000rpm is something else. I've
a feeling I get unwanted police attention due to pitch more than volume, it
has the tendancy to sound very bike like.

I do like the S2000, that engine does sound sweet when it revs, but for
sheer pleasure the Zonda being thrashed has to be in the top three !!

[footnote]Edited by Bibbs on Wednesday 13th June 18:48[/footnote]

 

[Wick]

Originally Posted by VOSA

I do like the S2000, that engine does sound sweet when it revs, but for

sheer pleasure the Zonda being thrashed has to be in the top three !!

He is human at least hahahaha

 

[sam_clio182]

They were parked up pulling cars that sounded anything louder than a Prius it would seem.

FLOL!!!

Sorry too hear that tho complete joke because catching people committing serious crimes isn't as important as a loud exhaust!!

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Bellends...

:dapprove:

Lol it was burbling and popping on idle as they chatted to me. Yep apparently so, I had no idea either. I tried to question Subaru's etc but they weren't having any of it.

Oi !

 

[Inequality Street]

When I heard you drive off the other day, literally poodling off from the lights, didn't sound that loud at all! Yes I could hear you, but it wasn't sper car loud!

 

[Lal B3N]

Wonder how loud my system is. Can imagine it being similar figures to yours.

Been pulled by traffic before though and never said a word. I think it depends on their mood if they want to get petty. Even though they are just technically doing their job.

 

[Tunst]

Seems a bit of a petty reason tbh!

Wonder how loud my system is. Can imagine it being similar figures to yours.

Been pulled by traffic before though and never said a word. I think it depends on their mood if they want to get petty. Even though they are just technically doing their job.

Chav :rasp:

 

[Greeny.]

I got 2 x £30 fines for my old 172 Yozza Race system however that was stupid loud with a de-cat fitted. My current BTB with cat fitted doesn't cause me any problems and neither did any of my other exhausts, the Yozza however was just silly loud for a road car. I didn't argue the toss with the coppers at the time but they had no proof it was 'to loud' apart from what they heard, they didn't even have a db tester!

 

[Tunst]

I just remembered I got a section 59 for my old car.. Was sitting outside a takeaway waiting for my food at like 2am... Car was only on idle too!