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What do you guys think of these?
- Thread starter looch
- Start date
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Focus, GSXR1000 & R6
I am no expert and have never done anything with carbon in my life but I can see where M40 CUO is coming from, if covering a flat surface or something with a gentle curve then yes it would look fine, but if trying to do so with a sharper curve or 'bump' then it will affect the weave?
On the other hand I can see where the customer is coming from and if he is not happy then a refund should be made, and as stated the parts can be sold on to someone else who is happy with it.
On the other hand I can see where the customer is coming from and if he is not happy then a refund should be made, and as stated the parts can be sold on to someone else who is happy with it.
Before I sent you those parts I realy did want to keep them and put them on my car. So if you are at all unhapy with them please retern them and ill put them on my car and will redo you another set with the carbon layed up in the direction that was shown in the original pictures. Your wing mirrors in your pictures whitch I have been looking at I layed the carbon up the oposit way to the original pictures which is why the weave lookes wavey... But there will be still slight destortions as on the orriginal photos theres nothing you can do as its a protrusion...
'03 MCS, MKV Ed30
Thats the whole point in the thread, so the above photos are pointless post really.
There not pointless posts becouse he sed I was a cowboy and wanted to see If I was as good as I sed I was...
As a customer Si, I have lost confidence in your role as the service provider. I don't want another set making, I would like to return them for a refund. You said yourself You can't help the distortion, I'd rather not have CF mirror bases if that's the case, I'll stick with OE.
Thanks
Thanks
This is all very lovely posturing, but, unfortunately I'm just going throw this in:-
The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 - Boiled down to key, pertenent facts
Buyers are entitled to a 7 working day returns period starting the day after reciept on all purchases to examine the goods and assess their quality before acceptance. This is because the buyer would not have the opportunity to examine the goods prior to purchase.
AND
By notifying the vendor of their intention to return the goods, the vendor must refund any monies paid within 28 days of notification.
The vendor is responsible for any carriage charges incurred by the buyer.
If the buyer does not return the goods then they can be pursued for the value of the goods.
Essentially, if our man here wants to get legal about it, it's a sure win.
The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 - Boiled down to key, pertenent facts
Buyers are entitled to a 7 working day returns period starting the day after reciept on all purchases to examine the goods and assess their quality before acceptance. This is because the buyer would not have the opportunity to examine the goods prior to purchase.
AND
By notifying the vendor of their intention to return the goods, the vendor must refund any monies paid within 28 days of notification.
The vendor is responsible for any carriage charges incurred by the buyer.
If the buyer does not return the goods then they can be pursued for the value of the goods.
Essentially, if our man here wants to get legal about it, it's a sure win.
Been reading this thread, and the above surely is a reasonable response and offer IMHO ... Yes people can argue it's a little late and get on one side or the other ... Not many people will have done this kind of work to know what's involved or what the expected result would look like ... I thought the work looked acceptable given the shape of the part ...
I think we live in a world now where we often expect customer service above everything else and not everyone is experienced or able to provide customer service nor take criticism easily without getting defensive ... It is also about having reasonable expectations aswell ...
Martin
Clio 1.2 mk2
I think thats fair, I'm sure you will try your best to get them as good as possible. As if so you may get a fair amount of customers back.
It has gone too far already really, but a swap for a better set should be accepted.
The Boosh!
ClioSport Admin
Elise, Duster
I'm not impressed to be honest. As far as i'm concerned you have mis-sold a product/service.
The product you have sent the OP look nothing like the picture's you have been posting up. In actual fact it looks s**te, and for £200 I would be wanting a 100% spot on job so on that basis i'd pay taking you straight to a small claims court as that isn't on.
The product you have sent the OP look nothing like the picture's you have been posting up. In actual fact it looks s**te, and for £200 I would be wanting a 100% spot on job so on that basis i'd pay taking you straight to a small claims court as that isn't on.
I thought the whole argument was about that fact that this set were fine in his view? If they are the best he can do how can he make a better set?
£200? FML.
This needs to be sorted so both parties are happy.
This needs to be sorted so both parties are happy.
Clio 1.2 mk2
He mentioned in his post about something to do with direction. Honestly I don't know anything about applying CF and i'm not trying to defend the work because it is pretty shoddy IMO but if he can do better and make it look like the others should let him try.
Perhaps the OP is reflecting, backing down a bit and trying to make amends ... maybe some credit is due as it's maybe not easy when a s**t storm is overhead ...
But I dont understand how the thread can open with the maker saying these are absolutely fine and exactly like every other set he has done, and then 3 pages later say to send them back and he will make a better set? Either they are up to scratch, or they aren't. They haven't changed quality during this thread.
But this is all second to the fact the OP is entitled to a full refund, with or without insults from the seller.
But this is all second to the fact the OP is entitled to a full refund, with or without insults from the seller.
It's a shame you can't read too. And because you clearly didn't pay attention to the link I posted I won't be paying attention to the one you just posted
Im sorry that you are not willing to take me up on my offer. I do not think that there is anything wrong with the part but if you are unhappy with the orientation of the fibers I cannot be fairer than to redo the part with the fibers orientated as far as possible as in the original pictures. These parts are individually hand made and there will be some variations in the fiber orientation. Thos is as far as im willing to go. My offer is still open and if you wish to take me up on it please contact me.
Mate are you reading the legal notes that were posted? Bugger me this is a joke!You dont have a leg to stand on...
If you went into a shop seen a nice suit on display, decided to buy it. Got home and it wasnt the same as you seen on display, stitching all over the place etc. You would take it back! You get to the shop and the person is downrightly rude and then after a massive arguement says fine i'll give you another one. Would you give them buisness? Personally id strangle them with the trousers! lol
If you went into a shop seen a nice suit on display, decided to buy it. Got home and it wasnt the same as you seen on display, stitching all over the place etc. You would take it back! You get to the shop and the person is downrightly rude and then after a massive arguement says fine i'll give you another one. Would you give them buisness? Personally id strangle them with the trousers! lol
I told him that the weave would not be entialy perfect from the start before he even sed he wanted me to cover a set of wing mirrors for him, even before he found a spare set I told him, he saw the pictures and even on them there is always some slight destortions depending on the complexity of the part, I sent him the terms and condition that I do not accept any liability to damage on disasembling/asembling the parts, any mistakes etc. He was willing to let me skin them which is a specalist job and for that I do not accept refunds.
I have offerd you a new set which is fare, I have not been rude to him, its in your hands weather you want to take it or not, if not thats your problem as I have tryed to resolve this hes just got ocd, if you got ocd don't buy carbon theres always inperfections.
If you have delt with as meany customers as me and they have all been very happy with the quality of the product but one person who is trying to be as pick as he can, taking pictures in the light that depicts the carbon weave in a bad way then what can I do its one person out of 100 that is not happy as hes got ocd.
Fit them to your car bring it round to me show me as in pictures you dont get how the carbon can reflect on a complex shape like these.
And on this picture below the carbon weave will bow up then back down becouse its going up and over a bulge back down you will get this. Also pictures never do carbon any justice than actualy seeing them in person...
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And were was I downright rude..?
Mustang, S13, AX GT
If it is 1 out of 100 then surely its more harmful doing things this way and putting off the next 100 customers instead of just refunding him and selling the parts on? Based on that kind of numbers you risk potentially losing another £20k+ for the sake of £200, and have already banked £20k from doing this minimum so it shouldn't be much of an issue.
With the responses you have given yourself and the quotes he has provided you have done anything but be polite about the situation or amicable, you have been down right rude. You were being rude in your defensive post by saying his dissatisfaction with an inferior product is down to an OCD! Its quite frankly disgusting, especially from some-one who is a rep for the club and should be some-one that can be trusted by the members on here..
Also as has been stated repeatedly, regardless of what you scribble down as terms and conditions the law on distance selling is the law, this cant be changed by a sellers written terms and conditions, which means he is still fully entitled to return the product and get a refund..
With the responses you have given yourself and the quotes he has provided you have done anything but be polite about the situation or amicable, you have been down right rude. You were being rude in your defensive post by saying his dissatisfaction with an inferior product is down to an OCD! Its quite frankly disgusting, especially from some-one who is a rep for the club and should be some-one that can be trusted by the members on here..
Also as has been stated repeatedly, regardless of what you scribble down as terms and conditions the law on distance selling is the law, this cant be changed by a sellers written terms and conditions, which means he is still fully entitled to return the product and get a refund..
And now your claiming he has a disorder! Id say thats f**king rude! Plus what was allegedly said in the PM's.
So when you sell a product you make the buyer sign these terms and conditions that you are not responsible for any mistakes!? lol you are doing the work! I really dont see the issue, if you are saying these are perfect and they all turn out like this then you will have no bother selling them on again to another hopefully satisfied customer!
So when you sell a product you make the buyer sign these terms and conditions that you are not responsible for any mistakes!? lol you are doing the work! I really dont see the issue, if you are saying these are perfect and they all turn out like this then you will have no bother selling them on again to another hopefully satisfied customer!
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
shocking from anyone never mind someone who is supposed to be representing the club, personally if it was my forum id be stripping you of your area rep possition and banning you from the sale of goods!
There is a difference between weave distortion and the back street abortion what has been shown in the pics. I work with cf everyday for a top f1 team and if I was to present my inspection department with these then I would be receiving my p45. Admittedly working with wet lay is harder than pre preg, but the weave isn't even straight on the flat sections. Advanced composites (producer of cf) say that it is better to cut the material in than stretch it in as the material isn't designed to work when the weave is stretched. you would have a better stronger prettier piece if staggered butt joins were used.
The bottom line is I'm not happy with the quality, and I'd like a full refund. You're not above the law and I'd like to send them back to you and we can both move on. You would be free to sell them onto one of your satisfied customers. I'm giving you the opportunity to resolve this issue so both parties are happy.
e92 330i
That picture above, IMHO is crap. On the bottom left of the item, the weave isn't even straight.
You said previously you can do curves, like wing mirror caps, but this buldge was to much? I am, by no means an expert in carbon fibre, but I do have eyes, they are telling me that it doesn't look right.
Oh and give him a refund, should expect more from a seller, especially an area rep ffs.
You said previously you can do curves, like wing mirror caps, but this buldge was to much? I am, by no means an expert in carbon fibre, but I do have eyes, they are telling me that it doesn't look right.
Oh and give him a refund, should expect more from a seller, especially an area rep ffs.
Some key points.
1) The quality of your work that was sent compared to the pictures is awful. The work you've photographed yourself looks brilliant. That matters for nothing when shoddy work appears in the hands of a paying customer.
2) Looch has been incredibly patient and polite. He didn't name you and hasn't resorted to insults. You however, have been an illiterate, rude customer service nightmare.
3) The legal bits posted are 100% fact. If he takes this to small claims court, which costs c.£35, then you will lose. No doubt about that.
Do the right thing and refund him. He doesn't want a replacement. That's his decision. If you're so confident in your work and that Looch is totally wrong, then you can sell them on to someone else and recoup your money.
1) The quality of your work that was sent compared to the pictures is awful. The work you've photographed yourself looks brilliant. That matters for nothing when shoddy work appears in the hands of a paying customer.
2) Looch has been incredibly patient and polite. He didn't name you and hasn't resorted to insults. You however, have been an illiterate, rude customer service nightmare.
3) The legal bits posted are 100% fact. If he takes this to small claims court, which costs c.£35, then you will lose. No doubt about that.
Do the right thing and refund him. He doesn't want a replacement. That's his decision. If you're so confident in your work and that Looch is totally wrong, then you can sell them on to someone else and recoup your money.
Jesus H f**king christ
M40 CUO, you MUST honour the rights of your customer, no matter how much of a 2-bit rogue trader you might be.
Without having the opportunity to examine the goods in advance of purchase, looch gets his distance selling rights, you have to just swallow it.
I completely understand your point regarding the handmade nature of the products and that the results are variable, however this is not a debate regarding the Sale Of Goods Act, this is purely about Distance Selling Regulations and, by acting as a vendor and selling your wares via a distance channel (be it mail, phone or internet) you are obliged to honour them.
Man up, deal with it, stop ruining your image with the community. For an area rep you really are a turd, I imagined that there'd be at least some standards to become a rep, but given your inabilty to form sentences, let alone full paragraphs, along with this whole charade, I wonder.
M40 CUO, you MUST honour the rights of your customer, no matter how much of a 2-bit rogue trader you might be.
Without having the opportunity to examine the goods in advance of purchase, looch gets his distance selling rights, you have to just swallow it.
I completely understand your point regarding the handmade nature of the products and that the results are variable, however this is not a debate regarding the Sale Of Goods Act, this is purely about Distance Selling Regulations and, by acting as a vendor and selling your wares via a distance channel (be it mail, phone or internet) you are obliged to honour them.
Man up, deal with it, stop ruining your image with the community. For an area rep you really are a turd, I imagined that there'd be at least some standards to become a rep, but given your inabilty to form sentences, let alone full paragraphs, along with this whole charade, I wonder.
It's also worth noting that looch can chase any costs incurred too, such as travel, any accomodation needed before trial date, costs of legal counsel (oh yes, looch, you should get a barrister on board, it's probably going to be £300 quid added onto the bill, but it's not your bill!).
It'll be cheaper to take the hit on the refund, but, hey, upto you.
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