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What petrol?
- Thread starter gus592
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Evo 5 RS
yeah, but at the end of the day it's peoples prerogative if they want to run s**t fuel, people do it in more highly strung cars than renaults.
I'm not saying it does any good, but the stock ECU knows whats happening and adjusts to it. Without anything horrific happening..
Would be nice if everyone had mechanical sympathy but that'll never happen
I'm not saying it does any good, but the stock ECU knows whats happening and adjusts to it. Without anything horrific happening..
Would be nice if everyone had mechanical sympathy but that'll never happen
If the exhaust valve heads fall off and destroy your cylinder head and pistons, would you class that as horrific or not?
Cause personally I would, and thats the sort of failure you are increasing the chance of if you drive around with the knock sensor pulling the timing out left right and chelsea
Fatigue is a very hard thing to gauge, as it takes so long to happen, and personally I would be avoiding anything that is likely to increase the rate it happens at.
Why should it be locked, surely its a pretty important thing to be discussing? Especially judging by the number of people in this thread who seem to be under the impression all fuels are essentially the same, when they most definately arent.
You'll gain back the performance and economy that the different fuel is costing you at certain load sites, but wether you actually notice that is another thing as its only going to be a couple of percent, and you'll also reduce the risk of the fuel causing excess fatigue through det or retarded timing, so IMHO yes its worth putting in the fuel that renault recomend instead of the substandard one it has been run on.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Tesco 99 is normal fuel with 5% ethanol added which increases the knock resistance of the fuel, but lowers its calorific value, so effectively its "watered down", if your car runs a little lean in places anyway, it could even lead to a misfire as a result.
Evo 5 RS
lol
Well this is it how would you even prove that it was caused by incorrect combustion. You're talking about millions of people who probably use lower octaine than recommended. 3rd or 4th owner who might have a lot more sympathy but at 90k it's already too late and it's taken it's tole.
It is impossible to gauge just how much damage you're doing, I don't know why we're having this conversation as tbh I agree with you lol. It's just people will always do it, no matter what it says on the tin - and they'll get along just fine thinking they've saved a few pence without noticing anything other than poor fuel consumption. The threads get locked because theres no solid evidence, so people will dispute it to carry on penny pinching.
>50 posts and still not locked ?
Maybe the lucky OP is the one millionth poster about this subject and gets to keep it open :evil:
Maybe the lucky OP is the one millionth poster about this subject and gets to keep it open :evil:
I think it's been discussed on here to death mate and most threads are locked quickly but it's Christmas!
You may as well apply the same logic to the cambelt, its already 20K past its interval so why change it now?
Or to people quitting smoking after 20 years when damage has already been done.
Bottom line is that your engine will last longer on the correct fuel than on a substandard one, especially if driven hard.
Most of the people that put 95 ron into these cars when they were newer also drove around at 20% throttle where the engine is probably 10 degrees from det anyway as its mapped for minimum advance for peak torque, so them using that fuel wont have triggered the knock sensor anyway.
However the people on this forum who own these cars at 90K miles are likely to be driving them hard and thats when its most important that a good quality of fuel is used.
So yes, even if its done 90K on 95 ron, I would still be using V-power or similar personally as I know that it will give my engine a slightly decreased chance of failing and I find it tedious pulling engines apart to replace valves or pistons, I only like pulling engines apart if its to upgrade them not to repair them.
I dont use 95 RON often, only usually if I'm caught short or the only pump available doesn't have a "premium" option.
Mind, all this talk of "load points" etc. I dont give the Clio a kicking, so, to the "normal" driver, would it make as much an issue as some of the y0! brigade?
Mind, all this talk of "load points" etc. I dont give the Clio a kicking, so, to the "normal" driver, would it make as much an issue as some of the y0! brigade?
Rob
ClioSport Moderator
Yes it has
You jinxed it.
Holy crap it's a christmas miracle.
This will stay open whilst there is an actual intelligent conversation going on, when it turns to sewage, it'll be locked up faster than Santa's sleigh when he's stopping in hackney.
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When manufacturers map a car, they do so always looking for the minimum ignition advance that will make peak torque.
Basically if you pick a load site and hold the car on it and then start adding in timing, you will find that as you add timing the torque increases, then you get to a point where it levels off, and then if you keep adding it in it will either start to drop again, or you'll actually get detonation.
For 95 RON the point you get detonation at will be less advance than on 98 RON, and for 98 RON the point of minimum advance for best torque will be more degrees of advance, as the fuel responds better to being worked harder.
What this means is that there will be load sites where the minimum advance for best torque on 98 RON fuel is actually more advance than required to get detonation on 95 RON fuel, and as a result the knock sensor will trigger and pull timing out.
When the timing is pulled out you lose economy, you lose performance, and you risk elevating EGTs as a result.
At low throttle angles the cylinder fill isnt sufficient to ever risk hitting this detonation point though, so if you fill up on 95 and drive around at part throttle everywhere, its highly unlikely there will be any difference at all in power or economy or engine reliability as a result.
The harder you are using your engine, the more important fuel quality is.
Cheers Chip.
So, if you're just doing motorway miles at legal speeds, 95 isn't that tragic.
but, if you're being a hero of the twistiez, then you need as many rons as you can get.
what about if someone goes and fills up with 101 RON though, say, in the silverstone paddock?
So, if you're just doing motorway miles at legal speeds, 95 isn't that tragic.
but, if you're being a hero of the twistiez, then you need as many rons as you can get.
what about if someone goes and fills up with 101 RON though, say, in the silverstone paddock?
Evo 5 RS
higher RON than specified isn't an issue, but you are less likely to see better economy/performance
Like Chip says it offers knock resistance so you're still better off just not as much
Like Chip says it offers knock resistance so you're still better off just not as much
Yes mate, thats pretty much it, the more time you spend at full throttle the more worthwhile a better fuel is.
Higher RON fuel can have a tendancy to burn more slowly, which can result in inefficiency as result, effectively its similar to retarding the ignition timing, the difference needs to be quite a large one before its an issue though, so going from 98 upto 101 is unlikely to cause any issues, but going from 95 to 109 might do.
Ultimately, the best fuel to run in your car, is the one its mapped for.
If thats a standard 172 engine then I think you need to have your dyno calibration checked, lol
Evo 5 RS
dyna-cup has sand for gearbox oil and pulleys the length of an atom, engineering finesse lol
That's from the one of the most respected renault dyno's in the country! On a clio dyno day everyone was making normal figures, my freak of a car made 190!! (160@wheels)
If the car has switchable maps, you will benefit from it by telling it straight up that you're running 101.
Not sure if the ECU keeps advancing until it sees det ? Fred might know...
LOL fair enough.
Anyone who does know about these things, will it take a lap of Silverstone to be running 101 most effectively or will it take 100 miles to increase ignition ?
Anyone who does know about these things, will it take a lap of Silverstone to be running 101 most effectively or will it take 100 miles to increase ignition ?
No the standard ecu wont advance beyond the point in the map, most cars arent det limited as to keep advancing up to det would be counter productive anyway.
It will r****d though based on the knock sensor, and then after a number of cycles without det will put the timing back in, but it wont go beyond what is mapped to as a maximum value.
In fact im struggling off hand to think of a car that will do, although I dont claim to know about every standard ecu, but like Ive said, its not really an advantage anyway as a lot of the time you wont EVER get det at part throttle, especially at high rpm, you'll just lose power and economy instead if you keep advancing the timing so why would you want the ecu to try?
It wont advance the ignition beyond what is in the standard 98 RON map, it doesnt have a 101 RON map to move onto.
One would have to wager that it isnt as stnadard as you think then!
Rusty Cup
The 200 doesnt care whether you use 95 or 98 but i chuck 98 in coz thats how i role.
Oh and dont use Morrisons fuel because apparently its sh*t!!
Oh and dont use Morrisons fuel because apparently its sh*t!!
we were measuring 20-24bhp losses on 172's last weekend. Put it next to laines cup on the same dyno and I'd put money on it beating yours
Renault Clio 182
I stick to using Tesco's or Shell Mine runs Like w**k on 95 and yes morrisons consistency is very poor on there fuel
Renault Clio 182
That suprises me, if im honest i always try to stick with shell but there never seems to be enough of the garages about
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