What V8???

[Budgie]

you should be able to pick up a rough xjr v8 pretty cheap.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XJ...ne-90K-and-Alloys-rusty-chassis-/272713527640

Perfect. Will end up in profit once you've sold the gearbox, wheels etc.

 

[Jaff.]

I was looking at them earlier.
Need to read up on the jag engines. There seems to be a lot of variations

 

[Soot1e]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the lower bhp of some off these older V8's, it's the torque that counts and V8's do have a lot more than the 4potters. For instance my friends Westfield P5B V8 is 160bhp and my Westfield 4pot is 225bhp, he beats me away from the lights and I can't keep up with him on the track.

 

[Knuckles]

@Jaffman

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=252995405870&globalID=EBAY-GB

 

[Jaff.]

So need some related help from knowledgable people on here - bmw related...

Can someone run me through gearboxes please? I believe they’re all getrag zf boxes?

 

[alistairolsen]

A little more detail required

BMW use boxes mainly made by ZF or Getrag, yes, but as they are manufacturers its always one or the other.

What do you need to know specifically?

Oh and as a result of this thread and prior research I now have a 1994 E38 740i parked on my drive....

 

[Jaff.]

Ha terribly sorry.

But I also have been busy buying things that I’d like to keep under wraps for now however I have a v8 that is readily converted from its auto status to manual depending on what gearbox you wish to use.

The 6 cylinder gearboxes are an option but I know nothing about them and what cars they came in (I’m talking ones that can handle the torque and power but not quite m3 as they’re expensive)

 

[_Tom]

One of my mates has this in Bristol - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263249455272
Never raced nor rallied. Honestly..

 

[Jaff.]

That’s cool, but not my bag atm. I have other plans

 

[alistairolsen]

OK, well going off what little you've said:
If its a BMW V8 then the only boxes which mate are the 'v8' boxes from manual 5 and 7 series v8 cars which come in 5 and 6 speed versions and are rare and expensive. There are various clutch configurations, none of which are ideal and you'll have to buy a suitable flywheel.

If its a BMW v8, there are some off the shelf options for mating the 6 speed boxes (which are identical, but with the bellhousing rotated to suit the engine inclination) such as:
http://pmcmotorsport.com/2,adapter-bmw-m60-m62-s62.html
http://pmcmotorsport.com/76,flywheel-bmw-m60-m62-s62.html

If its another V8 and you simply want to use the BMW boxes because theyre cheap and stong then thats fine, but youll need to sort out a flywheel for your v8 with a matching pressure plate. A friction plate to match the correct diameter for the flywheel and the input shaft splines, and a spigot bearing for the end of the crank to suit the diameter of the nose of the input shaft. Then you need to get the spacing right and make an adaptor plate.

With respect the the BMW boxes, I believe all the inline 6 boxes were the same for years, but changed more recently. Any manual from an E30/36/46 should all swap which is why you see E46 24v engines going into E30s on the original box.

 

[Jaff.]

So for reference, not a bmw v8, I want to use a bmw on another engine and understand the implications of he mating process.

My thoughts are, what car/s do I need to be looking at to have a usable box with potentially using the rear end too as there’s some diff issues when swapping stuff from other cars.

Is a 328 petrol manual from 20 years ago going to be the same as one from 10 years ago?

 

[alistairolsen]

Well specifically with BMW, you'd want to use the diff if you can as they use some fairly odd ratios at times, but you need to consider the respective wheel size as well ans see where you end up.

20 years ago is E36 and ten years ago is the beginning of E90 which I dont know about, but certainly the E46 will be the same.

Getrag 260 boxes from the E30 325 used to be cheap and well regarded but have gone up in price.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag_260_transmission
https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtips/bmw-e30-transmission-swaps/
http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/Drivetrain

E36 models I believe were all compatible, but they used a stronger ZF box for performance models and a getrag for the rest:
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f17/e36-328i-gearbox-differences-t75510/
But again, the bellhousing should be the same.

As a for instance, the Getrag 420G was fitted to lots of performance models including the V8 models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag_420G_transmission
But with a variety of bellhousing patterns/inclinations. Here are some pics of some of the options:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1046393
Even the E46 SMG was the same box, with the SMG controller added and a slightly different bellhousing
http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=444126
https://thegarage.jalopnik.com/how-to-own-a-bmw-e46-m3-with-a-proper-manual-for-next-t-1747802451

Complete list of getrag boxes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag

Complete list of ZF transmissions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ZF_transmissions

 

[Jaff.]

So realistically I’m looking for a zf gearbox then preferably an s6-37 to have the 6 speed?

 

[alistairolsen]

Yeah it's possibly a good option, still current enough theyll be around a while
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-37_transmission
So fitted to the Z4, 1 series, E90 3 series etc
I believe these newer engines may have a different bellhousing pattern from the older stuff mentioned above but if you're starting from scratch with an adaptor, then it doesnt really matter what bellhousing pattern you start with.

The previous generation would be the S5-39 and the S5D as fitted to E36 and E46 models
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=343528

 

[Budgie]

I would use something e36/e46 if poss, as there's so many diff/box/clutch options for them,

 

[Jaff.]

So even looking at e46 cars for example do they all have the same gearbox wether it be a 318 or a 328 or 330 etc.?

Looking at buying a whole car to use the back end too

 

[alistairolsen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series_(E46)#Manual_transmissions
Manual transmissions

• 5-speed ZF S5-39[57] (320d, 330d)
• 5-speed Getrag S5D 250G[58]
• 5 speed Getrag S5D 320Z (328i, 330i)
• 6-speed ZF S6-37 (2003–2006)

So a range of gearboxes, the stronger Zf in the diesels, Getrag in the petrols and the S6-37 for the 6 speed models.

But the point is what bellhousing pattern they used, and all the early stuff was the same, from the 6 cylinder E30 to the end of the E46 I believe. You may find for instance the the ZF S6-37 in the E46 and the one in an E90 are the same apart from the bellhousing casting, but since this is also the front gearbox housing, it pays to buy the correct box.

I'd probably plump for the e36/46 bellhousing pattern because donors are cheap and then buy as many used gearboxes as you can whilst theyre cheap. (to put it in perspective I bought a getrag 260 for a project when they were £30. Now theyre £150 and I wish I had a shelf full)

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[Jaff.]

Ahhh! So much choice lol

£150 for a gearbox is manageable considering what I currently have and the price I paid.

Am I right I’m assuming the rear end of the e36 and the e46 are the same too?

My thoughts now are use the back end with diff and gearbox from the above cars with an adaptor plate.

My other option is 350z stuff as I believe they come with lsd as standard in the diff?

 

[alistairolsen]

If you want an LSD, buy a 2.7l Z3 as most of them came with a torsen diff.

 

[Jaff.]

Don’t necessarily want a diff it’s just a nice to have.

Don’t forget the name of the game is cheap lol

 

[alistairolsen]

To put it in perspective, I paid £1015 for the 740 and intend to wind up with an engine and a small profit.
I'll use the money I get back to buy a Z3, hoping to wind up with hubs/box/prop/diff/shafts and my money back.
I can then use the same money a third time to buy half the donor E30 shell to put it all in.
Means that I have a grand in it until I buy the E30 when I need to put a second grand in some months from now.
Downside is space and time to break cars.

 

[Jaff.]

Lol epic - sounds like a good plan

 

[Jaff.]

Can’t keep it a secret anymore new project starts soon!

 

[alistairolsen]

Excellent!

I bought a Z3 yesterday to break for bits. Lucky my Mrs is understanding!

 

[Jaff.]

Yeah she’s pretty good with me tbf. We currently have 6 cars littering the driveway/garage and I’ve not had a big complaint.

Into both of those for £1200 though so hopefully my idea of keeping this budget will continue along the same path. And I found a good rwd subframe for £25 so looking good so far.

Gonna keep it auto for the time being and see how it goes. A manual conversion can come at a later date

 

[alistairolsen]

Sounds good! By the time you sell what you don't need you'll be back flush probably, which is my aim.
I believe you can get manual valve blocks for the Lexus transmission anyway, so theres a decent solution if you want a little more control

 

[Jaff.]

Sounds good! By the time you sell what you don't need you'll be back flush probably, which is my aim.
I believe you can get manual valve blocks for the Lexus transmission anyway, so theres a decent solution if you want a little more control

manual valve blocks?

 

[alistairolsen]

It replaces the valves on the box and the ECU etc so you shift gears manually and engage the torque converter lockup manually, giving you a manually controlled automatic box.

Have a search for "full manual valve body"

 

[Jaff.]

So you can electronically tell it to shift up or down using shift paddles or such? I’m assuming this still doesn’t need a clutch pedal...?

Will do some more research later - been a bit busy today...